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Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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Old 12-19-2012, 06:29 PM   #166
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
Aren't we discussing the future of the team? I keep reading about Mike moving into a full time GM role and Kyle taking over coaching, no?

If you don't see the dangers in that scenario...nevermind.
are they different from the dangers of any other scenario? if so, how?
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:03 PM   #167
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
The only place I've heard Mike for COY is on this board, where else has he been named?

Also, haven't heard RG discussed as MVP outside this board. P Manning, Brady and AP I've heard about. Manning gets it IMO.

Zorn was a joke, but this is Shanahan's team and roster through and through. Interestingly enough, the only remnants or similarities between the two regimes have been in play-calling eg swinging gate vs RG catching the pass against Ryan Clark. I'm not really sure why anyone brings Zorn up otherwise, what does he have to do with anything at this point? You can say the team was depleted of talent, but that's been debunked by Tripp and frankly, common sense. The defense Mike inherited was better than anything he's been able to put together since.

NFL.com lists pts/game ranking for us:

2012-23rd
2011-21st
2010-21st
2009-18th
2008-6th

The 18th ranking in 2009 is probably misleading because much of the team mailed it in halfway through the season. But it's clear anyway. In five seasons we went from 6th to 23rd, and Shanahan has everything to do with that. He also is responsible for an improved offense. So where does that leave us? Again, what's the Shanaplan? How does the defense improve so we can be a contender, given the lack of resources we have going forward? How does it "work" when father and son run the organization from top to bottom?

I don't blame anybody for avoiding specifics here btw. Just don't pretend they're unimportant.

Now we can go back to discussing Jordan Black
So... You...

1) proved the defense went from 18th to 23rd under Shanahan.

2) Completely avoided specifics by saying the 18th ranking is "misleading"

3) Said Shanahan has everything to do with the last 5 years of the defense, even though he's been here 2 3/4 years total.

4) Misleadingly claimed that the defense dropped from 6th to 23rd under Shanahan when your own facts clearly state that it has only dropped from 18th to 23rd.

5) Make an odd attempt to laugh at us by claiming that we are "avoiding specifics".
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:10 PM   #168
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

(1) Mike was discussed as coach of the year on NFL Network conditioned on the Skins making the playoffs - A fair prerequisite. He has also been discussed as COY by local media and pretty much every fan board out there (hogshaven, extremeskins etc.).
Is Shanahan a coach of the year candidate? - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

(2) Zorn's roster was not talentless. In fact, it had some good aging talent but, as MS noted shortly after his arrival, it lacked depth of any sort. The team inherited by MS was in decline, had a dysfunctional front office and cancerous locker room - That analysis has not been "debunked" by anyone.

(3) Conflict of interest? Well that's just ignorant. As head of the Skins, if MS fails to succeed, he gets fired - ultimately, it is in his and the Skins best interest for him to succeed. If you're concerned that MS would retain his son despite the son's failure ... okay ... maybe. However, once it becomes apparent MS won't fire KS, you think Dan Snyder is likely to just wilt before him while MS tanks the team? Doubtful at best and certainly not backed by history. Once the team was clearly entrusted to Cerrato (after Gibbs II), even he was not immune.

(4) So the criticism against Shanny is now that he hasn't developed any young defensive talent outside the first round? Wow ... reaching on that one. A team with no depth hasn't filled all its holes with late round draft picks. Of course, hitting on Kerrigan, getting play from Jenkins, Crawford and Robinson ... yup - proof positive that MS can't pick defenders this time around.

(5) The criticism of Reid is weak/shallow? Please rebut the assertion he has failed to utilize Westbrook and McCoy. Please rebut the assertion that he has a reputation for poor clock management. Please rebut the assertion that he has a horrible success rate on 3rd and short.

Philadelphia Eagles: 5 Changes Andy Reid Needs To Make | Bleacher Report

(6) The Shanaplan certainly seems evident to me: (a) Build primarily through the draft with some UFA additions; (b) In both the draft and UFA acquisitions seek out "team" players; (c) Provide opportunity without favoritism; (d) Find a franchise QB.


It's very simple Goat. In almost every thing you say related to football, ...
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:17 PM   #169
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

just could not stay.....strong could you, Joe?
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:20 PM   #170
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This sounds like Yoda speaking in a ukraine tongue. Lol
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:21 PM   #171
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Lmao!!!! Now that is hysterical.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #172
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

lol ... no. I am human and therefore fail. It's just that he's ... soooo ... irrational.

Mea culpa ... I shall say seven Hail SmootSmack's and six Our Matty's.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:35 PM   #173
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[QUOTE=The Goat;978010]
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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
please explain how a conflict of interest is even relevant here: best for the shanahans or the redskins? wtf are you talking about? You could just as easily say that Patriots fans have no way of knowing if Bill Belicheck is making decisions that are the best for Bill Belicheck or for the Patriots.QUOTE]

Aren't we discussing the future of the team? I keep reading about Mike moving into a full time GM role and Kyle taking over coaching, no?

If you don't see the dangers in that scenario...nevermind.
Goat i believe in the world of forum logistics that ideas and thoughts and beliefs and desires can get twisted or snowball into something they were not intended to come across as. Its the nature of digital expression. I for one respect any idea or opinion which is put forth in this forum because none of us have a crystal ball to debunk a theory or idea. All we can go by imo when discussing the state of the Redskins is wins and losses. Win = success. Loss = failure. Not in a week to week case, because nobody is perfect, but in a broad picture. So i ask you this......what if the Redskins win the division and than make some noise in the postseason. Not like 05, 07 when we knew damn well we were not going anywhere fast. This time we make noise with a rather potent offense, seemingly capable enough defense ( minus one quarter over a five game span they have played pretty damn well), and a kicker we are not afraid to march out on the field and kick us to victory. I dont care whose fault it is or isnt that any of these things are working btw. Haz, rg-3, ks, ms, ? If this team does what i propose they are going to do. Which is win two playoff games at least. Than , would you stand pat and accept this same regime back next year with open arms? Yes or no? One word answer is required.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:03 PM   #174
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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lol ... no. I am human and therefore fail. It's just that he's ... soooo ... irrational.

Mea culpa ... I shall say seven Hail SmootSmack's and six Our Matty's.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:36 PM   #175
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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Originally Posted by punch it in View Post

Goat i believe in the world of forum logistics that ideas and thoughts and beliefs and desires can get twisted or snowball into something they were not intended to come across as. Its the nature of digital expression. I for one respect any idea or opinion which is put forth in this forum because none of us have a crystal ball to debunk a theory or idea. All we can go by imo when discussing the state of the Redskins is wins and losses. Win = success. Loss = failure. Not in a week to week case, because nobody is perfect, but in a broad picture. So i ask you this......what if the Redskins win the division and than make some noise in the postseason. Not like 05, 07 when we knew damn well we were not going anywhere fast. This time we make noise with a rather potent offense, seemingly capable enough defense ( minus one quarter over a five game span they have played pretty damn well), and a kicker we are not afraid to march out on the field and kick us to victory. I dont care whose fault it is or isnt that any of these things are working btw. Haz, rg-3, ks, ms, ? If this team does what i propose they are going to do. Which is win two playoff games at least. Than , would you stand pat and accept this same regime back next year with open arms? Yes or no? One word answer is required.
Yes!

But c'mon buddy, you know I can't just leave it there lol. Just making the playoffs is enough to cement another year of the regime (keeping its current structure) for me. That said, I want to see two consecutive years (presumably this year and next) of improvement before we start signing Shanahans to the next decade of coaching. I think the talk of a clear and recognizable "Shanaplan," extensions, or anything beyond next season is pretty silly right now. I reckon some folks are ready to crown Mike a King and Kyle a prince, I guess because they (fingers crossed) are on the verge of a winning season. It's why I've been rehashing the (vast) shortcomings of the regime in this thread...let's chill the eff out and see what happens.

Last edited by SmootSmack; 12-20-2012 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:12 AM   #176
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Yes!

But c'mon buddy, you know I can't just leave it there lol. Just making the playoffs is enough to cement another year of the regime (keeping its current structure) for me. That said, I want to see two consecutive years (presumably this year and next) of improvement before we start signing Shanahans to the next decade of coaching. I think the talk of a clear and recognizable "Shanaplan," extensions, or anything beyond next season is pretty silly right now. I reckon some folks are ready to crown Mike a King and Kyle a prince, I guess because they (fingers crossed) are on the verge of a winning season. It's why I've been rehashing the (vast) shortcomings of the regime in this thread...let's chill the eff out and see what happens.
Your just hesitant to go all in because your afraid to be pissed off if it blows up again like it has so many times before. I get it. Alot of us are.
Makes me feel better to know that i got an emphatic yes! Lol. I knew you would be hard pressed to give me a one word answer, but i did get a one word paragraph!
I will never say i told you so Goat, i cant. I publicly pointed out shortcomings while they were losing. However, i think coaches can change, Anything you dont like about Shannys defensive personnel decisions can change. We dont know exactly who is discussing exactly what behind closed doors about personnel but old dogs do learn new tricks contrary to popular belief. I firmly believe on every level that this team is onto something big - for a long while - and that it is not just because they got lucky and landed RG-3.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:25 AM   #177
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
The only place I've heard Mike for COY is on this board, where else has he been named?

Also, haven't heard RG discussed as MVP outside this board. P Manning, Brady and AP I've heard about. Manning gets it IMO.

Zorn was a joke, but this is Shanahan's team and roster through and through. Interestingly enough, the only remnants or similarities between the two regimes have been in play-calling eg swinging gate vs RG catching the pass against Ryan Clark. I'm not really sure why anyone brings Zorn up otherwise, what does he have to do with anything at this point? You can say the team was depleted of talent, but that's been debunked by Tripp and frankly, common sense. The defense Mike inherited was better than anything he's been able to put together since.

NFL.com lists pts/game ranking for us:

2012-23rd
2011-21st
2010-21st
2009-18th
2008-6th

The 18th ranking in 2009 is probably misleading because much of the team mailed it in halfway through the season. But it's clear anyway. In five seasons we went from 6th to 23rd, and Shanahan has everything to do with that. He also is responsible for an improved offense. So where does that leave us? Again, what's the Shanaplan? How does the defense improve so we can be a contender, given the lack of resources we have going forward? How does it "work" when father and son run the organization from top to bottom?

I don't blame anybody for avoiding specifics here btw. Just don't pretend they're unimportant.

Now we can go back to discussing Jordan Black
Goat, I remember when Shanny was fired in Denver. He was quoted as saying something to the affect of "Now that I have a chmapioship conteding offense I need to get a defense and start contending for a championship again".

That would leave me to believe that his next steps in completing his 5 year plan will be to stack the defense the next two years while tweaking the offense to create a team capable of accomplishing that goal.

Yes the team had a defense that was ranked back then, but it was over paid veterans who were nearing the end of thier careers. The defense was going to need an overhaul soon, and Shanny wanted the 3-4. He took something that wasn't broke at the time but was heading there and started to reconstruct it. It obviously needs more work, but once again teams aren't built in an off season
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:36 AM   #178
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

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That would leave me to believe that his next steps in completing his 5 year plan will be to stack the defense the next two years while tweaking the offense to create a team capable of accomplishing that goal.
I really hope so -- I think he gets some leeway due to the unreal number of injuries, suspensions etc. which have decimated the defense. But leaders are judged on what is, not what could have been and the defense has done a very average job (much better in recent weeks) this season in my opinion. I really hope the defense gets better, and think it will, next season.

Stats don't tell the whole story but they are the most objective measures we have: 29th in YPG, 30th in PYPG, 23rd in Points per game, 16th in sacks -- not a championship caliber defense. That being said, 6th best in Takeaways and 6th best in RuYPG which is very good. So, incomplete, lots of room for improvement.

Anyways -- back to Jordan Black...
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:05 AM   #179
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Jordans......black
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:34 AM   #180
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Re: Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

Are we ever gonna get the whole story on this suspension thing? I mean if I am a player and feel wronged like this I am screaming from the mountain top and filing lawsuits and everything.
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