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The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Old 12-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #46
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
Big Ben operated out of the pistol almost all night a couple years ago against the Ravens when he had a busted up ankle.

The read option on the other hand is a different story.
He still uses it too right?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:04 PM   #47
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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He still uses it too right?
I haven't noticed honestly
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #48
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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He still uses it too right?
i believe so . . . yes . . . as do a few others, but not to the extent the redskins do . . . it's simply takes the advantages of the shotgun formation and other normal like the i or the pro formations and combines them into one . . .
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #49
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Of course not. That would stupid. Teams are built differently and thus NFL teams will always run what works best for each individual team.
Who ever said the Pistol offense provides an "insurmountable advantage"?
Are you making shit up again?
I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #50
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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So if QB keeps aren't central to the pistol's effectiveness and it provides an insurmountable advantage for the offense, we should absolutely see P Manning and Brady run it next season, yes?
I don't think successful QB's necessary will change their style that has been successful for them over the past 13 years, but I especially wouldn't be surprised to see PManning use it. With his ability to read and sway defenses even from behind center, I imagine he would be like an grand symphony conductor moving TE's and FB's in and out of a diamond or pistol formation.

Again, the shotgun was an evolution that many coaches didn't like, simply because it created a less sure passing of the ball from the center to the qb, but now I don't think there is a team in the league that doesn't use it to some extent.

I would be surprised if the pistol doesn't become at least an option in every team's playbook over the next few years
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:36 PM   #51
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?
Your whole post is really a pure BS argument. Nothing in the NFL gives an "insurmountable" offensive advantage, as they say Defense gets paid too.

As for the substantive explanation, I know the article expressed several rational points for the pistol being a sustainable effective formation for any NFL team. I know Defensewins and I put forward several as well, the fact that you don't acknowledge them makes them neither less substantive, nor less effective. The proof this year is in the stats that have our team leading the NFL in yards per attempt, and the fact that more teams are starting to use it, copycatting is a form of flattery in the NFL.

As to Lotus' point, we may use it as our base formation, specifically because our exceptionally talented qb is able to run it to a T. If he ran the shotgun perfectly, my guess is that would be our base. It's kind of a fitting the scheme to your personnel type thing.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #52
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
I'm simply asking for some substantive explanation. There's nothing you've said I hadn't already heard/read at least a dozen times.

If the pistol doesn't give the offense a tangible, reliable advantage (what I would call insurmountable), why would we use it as our base as Lotus said?

On the flip side, if it does provide that advantage why wouldn't the other super smart QBs, namely Manning and Brady, begin using it next year?

In 1982 the Redskins (Bugel and Gibbs) took a college play the "counter-trey" and introduced it into the NFL. They ran it until defenses learned how to defeat it and it did not work anymore. It took almost ten years and we won three super bowls with it. Many teams copied it but not all teams copied used it.
I am not by any means saying the Pistol will have that kind success but you keep using something it if it works.

There is nothing in football, scheme or formation that is insurmountable or gives you an insurmountable advantage. Everything can at some point be defeated or at least neutralized by the clever NFL defenses that are prepared with the knowledge, scheme and tools to defeat it.
We are using the pistol because we are winning and playing well in it, not because it affords us an insurmountable advantage Why change (fix) something it it ain't broke.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:56 PM   #53
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule View Post
Your whole post is really a pure BS argument. Nothing in the NFL gives an "insurmountable" offensive advantage, as they say Defense gets paid too.

As for the substantive explanation, I know the article expressed several rational points for the pistol being a sustainable effective formation for any NFL team. I know Defensewins and I put forward several as well, the fact that you don't acknowledge them makes them neither less substantive, nor less effective. The proof this year is in the stats that have our team leading the NFL in yards per attempt, and the fact that more teams are starting to use it, copycatting is a form of flattery in the NFL.

As to Lotus' point, we may use it as our base formation, specifically because our exceptionally talented qb is able to run it to a T. If he ran the shotgun perfectly, my guess is that would be our base. It's kind of a fitting the scheme to your personnel type thing.
...and what's my argument again? Notice, apart from giving my opinion the pistol is a gimmick in my view unless it's central to a SB winning offense, I haven't made any other assessment. I've simply asked you to put the pistol in the context of pro football as opposed to the Washington Redskins. Honestly, I think you've already overreached.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:57 PM   #54
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
In 1982 the Redskins (Bugel and Gibbs) took a college play the "counter-trey" and introduced it into the NFL. They ran it until defenses learned how to defeat it and it did not work anymore. It took almost ten years and we won three super bowls with it. Many teams copied it but not all teams copied used it.
I am not by any means saying the Pistol will have that kind success but you keep using something it if it works.

There is nothing in football, scheme or formation that is insurmountable or gives you an insurmountable advantage. Everything can at some point be defeated or at least neutralized by the clever NFL defenses that are prepared with the knowledge, scheme and tools to defeat it.
We are using the pistol because we are winning and playing well in it, not because it affords us an insurmountable advantage Why change (fix) something it it ain't broke.
Best post I've read from you.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:07 PM   #55
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

Not sure why you guys are debating with a guy who doesn't understand the difference between a formation and a play.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #56
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

Wildcat is not an offensive philosophy where you line up with it every play -- it's where you have a RB at the normal QB spot to have an extra blocker. It's more a change of personnel.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #57
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

Throwing and Running are now considered gimmicks in the NFL, not even trolling.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:17 PM   #58
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Throwing and Running are now considered gimmicks in the NFL, not even trolling.
Well, I remember when a Steeler fan I know was calling Peyton and Brady's offenses a "dink and dunk" play that anybody could do. Like it was a gimmick. Now that Rothlisberger is doing the some of the same thing under Haley...

If other teams start copying what we do, it won't be considered a "gimmick" for long.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:06 PM   #59
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Well, I remember when a Steeler fan I know was calling Peyton and Brady's offenses a "dink and dunk" play that anybody could do. Like it was a gimmick. Now that Rothlisberger is doing the some of the same thing under Haley...

If other teams start copying what we do, it won't be considered a "gimmick" for long.
As someone pointed out, formations and plays are different things. The run and shoot has come and gone a lot also, works great for Brady.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #60
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Best post I've read from you.
Yet, the best one I've read from you.
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