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The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Old 12-29-2012, 04:17 PM   #61
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by Evilgrin View Post
Throwing and Running are now considered gimmicks in the NFL, not even trolling.
Well, I remember when a Steeler fan I know was calling Peyton and Brady's offenses a "dink and dunk" play that anybody could do. Like it was a gimmick. Now that Rothlisberger is doing the some of the same thing under Haley...

If other teams start copying what we do, it won't be considered a "gimmick" for long.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:06 PM   #62
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by HailGreen28 View Post
Well, I remember when a Steeler fan I know was calling Peyton and Brady's offenses a "dink and dunk" play that anybody could do. Like it was a gimmick. Now that Rothlisberger is doing the some of the same thing under Haley...

If other teams start copying what we do, it won't be considered a "gimmick" for long.
As someone pointed out, formations and plays are different things. The run and shoot has come and gone a lot also, works great for Brady.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:06 PM   #63
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Best post I've read from you.
Yet, the best one I've read from you.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:17 PM   #64
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by SkinsGuru View Post
Agreed . . . this is how i look at it . . . what i don't understand is why everyone is saying the pistol formation puts a QB at further risk . . . i understand what the thinking is around the option plays and how that may add an extra risk, but the pistol formation itself would, IMO actually add a tiny bit of extra time, therefore a tiny bit of extra protection . . . isn't the pistol formation really just an i-formation or a pro-formation with the qb 3 - 4 yards deep instead of under center??
That's certainly one good way to look at it.

I prefer to consider the pistol as a marriage between the old single wing and the modern passing game.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:43 AM   #65
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I wonder how and if they will incorporate zone read plays in Madden
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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I wonder how and if they will incorporate zone read plays in Madden
They'll have to actually let you decide to hand it off or not, like how they do it in NCAA. Not sure why they don't already let you do that. There are read option plays in there, but it's not a true "option" as you have to just run the play as is.

It will be cool to see the pistol in there too.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #67
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

The best line in the whole article is that Griffin almost always makes the correct read. He is effectively neutering the best defensive ends in the league, whom are left unblocked, letting them pick their poison. It's a beautiful thing when DeMarcus Ware bites on the handoff to Morris, only to helplessly watch Griffin pull the ball back and streak around the corner. With this QB, the Pistol isn't a gimmick, it's a paradigm shift that has the entire league on notice.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:22 AM   #68
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by SouperMeister View Post
The best line in the whole article is that Griffin almost always makes the correct read. He is effectively neutering the best defensive ends in the league, whom are left unblocked, letting them pick their poison. It's a beautiful thing when DeMarcus Ware bites on the handoff to Morris, only to helplessly watch Griffin pull the ball back and streak around the corner. With this QB, the Pistol isn't a gimmick, it's a paradigm shift that has the entire league on notice.
I started wondering a couple weeks ago, when talk about a playoff game vs Seattle started, if their big corners can minimize the pistol's effectiveness. A few analysts have talked about it too, but I have no idea what to expect. I guess if they're expecting the keep and RG is still hobbled they could close fast enough to stop a first down.

Or maybe the pistol can be effective without RG being a threat to run necessarily. Maybe we'll find out this game?
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:24 AM   #69
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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I started wondering a couple weeks ago, when talk about a playoff game vs Seattle started, if their big corners can minimize the pistol's effectiveness. A few analysts have talked about it too, but I have no idea what to expect. I guess if they're expecting the keep and RG is still hobbled they could close fast enough to stop a first down.

Or maybe the pistol can be effective without RG being a threat to run necessarily. Maybe we'll find out this game?
I still dont get why people talk about the Pistol as if its an offense and/or offensive concept in and of itself. There is way too much reading into it. The Pistol is nothing more than a formation. It can run the same concepts as the standard I-Formation as SkinsGuru said earlier. It was asked earlier why others dont run it. Because it depends on what you want to do on offense as to whether the Pistol formation is usable or not.

The reason why it helps RG3 and the Redskins. Because of the concepts they want to use. First, they run the ZBS which is based heavily on stretch running plays. Second, RG3 is way to good at play action to not want to use it and even feature it in the passing game. Third, They want to use the read option to keep defenses reading before reacting, ultimately slowing them down making the rest of the offense work better.

Starting with the first point, the ZBS. The stretch run from the Pistol allows RG3 to get the ball quicker to Morris than he could under center, allowing Morris to get on the stretch runs quicker. Morris can press the outside hard because he doesnt have to wait as long for the hand-off.

The second point, play action. RG3 does not read defenses as good as experienced QB's, and play action can be detrimental to young QB's because that keeps their head in the backfield and not on reading the defense. The Pistol allows RG3 to execute the play action and get his head around quicker because he is already 3 or 4 yards deep.

The third point, the read option. Going back to it being asked why everyone doesnt run the Pistol if its so special. Tebow and Cam can both run the read option very well. Then shouldnt they use the Pistol? No way, that would be a huge mistake. The reason why is due to the axis of the run itself. Tebow and Cam are tanks. They have the option to hand off to the RB who is going to stretch the outside. They specifically read the DE that is reacting to the RB. If the DE crashes inside, they hand off to the RB who goes outside. If the DE maintains the outside to force it inside, Tebow (Tank 1) and Cam (Tank 2) take it right up the middle. Now they can choose basically tackle to tackle if they see a hole, but they are a FB at that point.

That is a mistake with RG3, hence the pistol. In the shotgun, the QB is facing forward, the RB runs across his face to the sideline. In the Pistol, the QB is facing the sideline, and the RB goes straight ahead. This changes the axis of the play from RB outside/QB inside to the exact opposite. The Pistol read option is RB inside/QB outside. Which is what we need to do based on RG3 not being a tank, but a cheetah (who can also throw the ball). RG3 does not read the DE who is assigned to the RB, he reads the DE to his side. If the DE crashes, RG3 keeps and goes outside. If the DE maintains the edge, Morris takes it between the tackles. I would much rather have RG3 going outside since he has that speed, plus it has him headed towards the sidelines.

We can run the stretch run plays with the ZBS (which can be run from under center). We can run a pro style play action passing game (which can be run from under center). Or we can run the read option. All very easily out of the Pistol Formation. Throw in that the defense has to respect three offensive concepts without changing a single look (Remember, under Rex/Beck/McNabb even the good plays seemed telegraphed) and the Pistol suits what we do better than other formations.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:57 AM   #70
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
I started wondering a couple weeks ago, when talk about a playoff game vs Seattle started, if their big corners can minimize the pistol's effectiveness. A few analysts have talked about it too, but I have no idea what to expect. I guess if they're expecting the keep and RG is still hobbled they could close fast enough to stop a first down.

Or maybe the pistol can be effective without RG being a threat to run necessarily. Maybe we'll find out this game?
To repeat: the pistol is a formation, not a play. You can run the pistol without the QB's EVER keeping the ball.

When people talking about RGIII making good reads, as described above, they are talking about a play, the read option, not a formation. The read option can be run from formations other than the pistol. The read option and the pistol are not the same thing.

I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to understand.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:10 AM   #71
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They'll have to actually let you decide to hand it off or not, like how they do it in NCAA. Not sure why they don't already let you do that. There are read option plays in there, but it's not a true "option" as you have to just run the play as is.

It will be cool to see the pistol in there too.
But thats all presnap, right? It not like you hold onto A throughout the handoff for run and let go of it before handing if off for pass/keeper. That'd be cool. Like if you hold A just right, then the D bites or something.

And agreed about the pistol.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:14 AM   #72
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To repeat: the pistol is a formation, not a play. You can run the pistol without the QB's EVER keeping the ball.

When people talking about RGIII making good reads, as described above, they are talking about a play, the read option, not a formation. The read option can be run from formations other than the pistol. The read option and the pistol are not the same thing.

I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to understand.
Ah I get it! So you're saying the read option and pistol are the same thing?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:26 AM   #73
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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But thats all presnap, right? It not like you hold onto A throughout the handoff for run and let go of it before handing if off for pass/keeper. That'd be cool. Like if you hold A just right, then the D bites or something.

And agreed about the pistol.
That's kinda how it works. I've never really run the option offense but it does give you some control over handing it off vs not.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #74
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Ah I get it! So you're saying the read option and pistol are the same thing?
Lol.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:52 PM   #75
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Re: The Future is Here: The NFL and the Pistol Offense

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Not sure why you guys are debating with a guy who doesn't understand the difference between a formation and a play.

I think this quote needs to be bumped for it's relevancy. Lot's of herp derp in this thread.
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