Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel

GTripp0012 · 12-31-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why would that be a bad thing for the Skins? Just curious what pitfalls you would be wanting to avoid

I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.

SBXVII · 12-31-2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Was he responsible for giving Tice the OC job? Tice was terrible. And they had Martz before him?

The pitfalls id like to avoid is giving the job to Kyle and he not do well if he not ready, or Kyle going to some other team right after we picker up our franchise QB and Kyle schemed around his abilities.

Let MS's contract go full term with son as OC. Give Kyle the title Asst HC. And hopefully in 2 yrs MS will give the position to son and dad keeps the front office job to help out if needed.

mooby · 12-31-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Arizona Cardinals fire Ken Whisenhunt, Rod Graves -- source - ESPN

Can add Whisenhunt and Rod Graves to that list. Coach and GM both out.

I still laugh at some of the guys around here boasting up the likes of Whisenhunt and Schwartz....lol

Whisenhunt dug his own Graves. Ok, bad puns aside, I mean when you trot out this appalling list of qb's post-Kurt Warner, for three consecutive seasons, you deserve to be fired. Check the talent on this list:

Derek Anderson, John Skelton, and Max Hall in 2010
Kolb and Skelton in 2011
Skelton, Kolb, Lindley, and Hoyer in 2012

Shit, if Mike Shanahan had stuck with a Grossman/Beck-esque player for this season I have no doubts he'd have been shitcanned too. I can understand having a terrible quarterback for one year or even two years like we did (because Mike S. didn't want to settle for a Gabbert after the McNabb disaster) but 3 years in a row? That's just terrible team-building. The difference between us and the Cards is we got rid of McNabb and just admitted it was a disaster, whereas the Cards gave Kolb another chance.

That Guy · 01-01-2013, 12:56 AM

being a head coach is more than X's and O's, so i have no idea how you can say kyle's ready right now.

norv is a good OC with no leadership ability, and is a horrible head coach. being great at one job doesn't mean you'll be great at the other.

i do believe he should be in line for the job, but it's working the way it's set up now, so let's run with that. if there is a serious issue of kyle leaving, then you can reconsider, but i think he's safe for this year at least.

WaldSkins · 01-01-2013, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.

If Kyle goes anywhere do u think he would try to trade with the skins for cousins?

HailGreen28 · 01-01-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think it's a bad thing for the Skins necessarily, but it certainly increases the chances that Kyle takes an opportunity outside the organization so that Mike can stay on longer. In which case, we'd be better off without a succession plan.

If the plan is for Kyle to be head coach, then name him head coach and promote Mike. My point is just that Kyle is ready now.

I'm confused by what you're saying. Kyle came here to coach under his dad, as a full fledged OC. This is the job Kyle wanted, not just taking whatever option was best, this was really a handpicked job. So I don't think Kyle is wanting to leave while things are looking up here.

A succession plan is a rare thing. And even then rarely works out. Petitbon, Gregg Williams (Snyder killed that)... But keeping a good system helps a team. So I think in this case we're better off with a Shanahan successor plan.

Kyle may be ready, no argument there, but seems to me like young coaches nowadays typically have a horrible first stint as HC. Read or heard that somewhere, and it rings true to me. This seems like a good situation to increase his experience as an OC, and increase his value to other teams.

In basic bargaining terms: The better Kyle looks over time, where he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere if he doesn't want to, the more leverage he should have to get a great contract when he does go.

Meantime I hope we keep him. I don't know exactly how much of this offensive success on Kyle (group effort on gameplanning during the week, Mike seems pretty involved on the sidelines but maybe not), but my bet is "a lot". Let's keep what works.

SmootSmack · 01-01-2013, 11:01 AM

Buffalo Bills to keep GM Buddy Nix, promote Russ Brandon - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

GTripp0012 · 01-01-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I'm confused by what you're saying. Kyle came here to coach under his dad, as a full fledged OC. This is the job Kyle wanted, not just taking whatever option was best, this was really a handpicked job. So I don't think Kyle is wanting to leave while things are looking up here.

A succession plan is a rare thing. And even then rarely works out. Petitbon, Gregg Williams (Snyder killed that)... But keeping a good system helps a team. So I think in this case we're better off with a Shanahan successor plan.

Kyle may be ready, no argument there, but seems to me like young coaches nowadays typically have a horrible first stint as HC. Read or heard that somewhere, and it rings true to me. This seems like a good situation to increase his experience as an OC, and increase his value to other teams.

In basic bargaining terms: The better Kyle looks over time, where he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere if he doesn't want to, the more leverage he should have to get a great contract when he does go.

Meantime I hope we keep him. I don't know exactly how much of this offensive success on Kyle (group effort on gameplanning during the week, Mike seems pretty involved on the sidelines but maybe not), but my bet is "a lot". Let's keep what works.

I really agree with the bolded part.

I feel like the Redskins can keep Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan in their current capacities for the 2013 season, but if the team wins 11+ next year and is even better than this years team, Kyle immediately becomes the hottest candidate out there (if he isn't already). That means while we might be able to get away this year simply because no great jobs are coming open (even though Chicago and Philadelphia are both open now), we're still going to hit the same issue a year down the road.

Alternatively, if the team were to backslide, you have a bigger issue with a succession plan, so I feel that the team is either best off promoting immediately, or taking it year to year and allowing Kyle to choose the situation that is best for him.

12thMan · 01-01-2013, 11:07 AM

Yeah, I'm not totally on board with the ide Kyle should be successor. I do want him to stay as OC, however. Too many, way too many, examples of stellar coordinators being promoted to head coach and end up sucking hard. I'm all for extending Mike.

GTripp0012 · 01-01-2013, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

If Kyle goes anywhere do u think he would try to trade with the skins for cousins?

Not necessarily.

Mattyk · 01-01-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

being a head coach is more than X's and O's, so i have no idea how you can say kyle's ready right now.

norv is a good OC with no leadership ability, and is a horrible head coach. being great at one job doesn't mean you'll be great at the other.

i do believe he should be in line for the job, but it's working the way it's set up now, so let's run with that. if there is a serious issue of kyle leaving, then you can reconsider, but i think he's safe for this year at least.

I tend to agree, and I've heard others say he's not quite ready yet either, as far as dealing with the media and being out there as the face of a team.

Ed Sheahin ‏@NFLSkins
I don't think Kyle Shanahan is ready for a head coaching job. He's not always comfortable in front of the media and he still needs to mature.

SmootSmack · 01-01-2013, 11:22 AM

This is why some key people in the organization think Raheem is the better HC candidate than Kyle.

Because of the "intangibles"

HailGreen28 · 01-01-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I really agree with the bolded part.

I feel like the Redskins can keep Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan in their current capacities for the 2013 season, but if the team wins 11+ next year and is even better than this years team, Kyle immediately becomes the hottest candidate out there (if he isn't already). That means while we might be able to get away this year simply because no great jobs are coming open (even though Chicago and Philadelphia are both open now), we're still going to hit the same issue a year down the road.

Alternatively, if the team were to backslide, you have a bigger issue with a succession plan, so I feel that the team is either best off promoting immediately, or taking it year to year and allowing Kyle to choose the situation that is best for him.

I just don't see what the problem is with a successor plan. It's not set in concrete. Even if it is (The Williams plan), it can be jettisoned. To me, it's a nice option to have. And like a lot of things in life, having a plan is good even if you end up going in a different direction.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-01-2013, 11:35 AM

I don't think there's any chance Kyle becomes our head coach. Such logic assumes mike shanahan will retire in 2 years when his contracts up. Mike will only be 62 then. Why would he want to retire from coaching? And we certainly couldn't fire him and promote Kyle. At some point, Kyle is going to leave and be a head coach somewhere else. I just hope he grooms his replacement before he goes. I'm not comfortable with mike shanahan being head coach and play caller.

Chico23231 · 01-01-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I tend to agree, and I've heard others say he's not quite ready yet either, as far as dealing with the media and being out there as the face of a team.

Ed Sheahin ‏@NFLSkins
I don't think Kyle Shanahan is ready for a head coaching job. He's not always comfortable in front of the media and he still needs to mature.

Agree. Remember Kyle running down the hall berating the official early in the season? Cant do that. I think Kyle needs a little more time.

@BHA, Mike Shanny regarded as one of the best playcallers in the league when he was doing it. I wouldnt have a problem with him doing both.

01-01-2013, 12:56 AM	#64
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 30 Posts: 15,624	Re: Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel being a head coach is more than X's and O's, so i have no idea how you can say kyle's ready right now. norv is a good OC with no leadership ability, and is a horrible head coach. being great at one job doesn't mean you'll be great at the other. i do believe he should be in line for the job, but it's working the way it's set up now, so let's run with that. if there is a serious issue of kyle leaving, then you can reconsider, but i think he's safe for this year at least. __________________ Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!

01-01-2013, 11:01 AM	#67
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,105	Re: Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel Buffalo Bills to keep GM Buddy Nix, promote Russ Brandon - NFL News \| FOX Sports on MSN __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-01-2013, 11:07 AM	#69
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,363	Re: Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel Yeah, I'm not totally on board with the ide Kyle should be successor. I do want him to stay as OC, however. Too many, way too many, examples of stellar coordinators being promoted to head coach and end up sucking hard. I'm all for extending Mike.

01-01-2013, 11:22 AM	#72
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,105	Re: Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel This is why some key people in the organization think Raheem is the better HC candidate than Kyle. Because of the "intangibles" __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-01-2013, 11:35 AM	#74
BigHairedAristocrat Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,812	Re: Black Monday: NFL Coaches and Executives Carousel I don't think there's any chance Kyle becomes our head coach. Such logic assumes mike shanahan will retire in 2 years when his contracts up. Mike will only be 62 then. Why would he want to retire from coaching? And we certainly couldn't fire him and promote Kyle. At some point, Kyle is going to leave and be a head coach somewhere else. I just hope he grooms his replacement before he goes. I'm not comfortable with mike shanahan being head coach and play caller. __________________ Dolphins get good press for saving drowning humans.But we only hear about the swimmers theyve pushed ashore.You know who we havent heard from: all the people theyve pushed out to sea.Dolphins dont know what theyre doing-they just like pushing things.

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