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Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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Old 01-04-2013, 01:14 PM   #106
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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I think Hall would be willing to restructure to be a part of where this franchise is headed. If he won't and you have to choose I would go with R. Jax.
He's said he wants to retire a Skin. We'll see if he means it...
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:12 PM   #107
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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He's said he wants to retire a Skin. We'll see if he means it...
What I would like to see is Hall putting on 10-15 pounds and becoming our starting free safety.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #108
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:40 PM   #109
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #110
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #111
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo
Exactly.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:08 PM   #112
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.
Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #113
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.
He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #114
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.
I think that he would have this year, but he got injured too early. I understand your frustration but the decline of the pass rush was evident without him. I do not want to kick either to the curb, but Orakpo is the better pass rushing LB for the 3-4 defense. I believe that he is going to play to his potential next season.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #115
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.
So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:25 PM   #116
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo
3 of them vs. Philly, For a good part of the season, especially when the Redskins needed wins against the Browns, the Ravens, Giants, and Dallas in those essential games against good teams he was nowhere to be found. Kerrigan is not the player you want to bank on. Kerrigan needs to show more against better competition.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #117
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.
He is better at pass coverage and that is it. Jackson is not a better pass rusher or better against the run. So to say Jackson is a better overall linebacker in my opinion is incorrect since Orakpo is stronger at the point then Jackson, better at containment and a better pass rusher by a significant margin.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:40 PM   #118
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

The team can't afford to get rid of him. What if Orakpo gets hurt again? I'd use Jackson as a relief pitcher and have him available in case someone goes down.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:05 PM   #119
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

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So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.
I'm not necessarily arguing what's statistically possible. Though that's usually a good way to measure a pass rusher's effectiveness. My bottom line, for all the hype, I want to see Brian Orakpo step into the echelon of perennial pass NFL pass rushers. So far, he hasn't. If that's asking too much, then sue me. We can go back and forth about Haslett's system, but next year I'd like to see more from Orakpo.

The central question in my mind is this: Can this defense survive without him? Now that may be a simplistic view, but it's certainly one way to look at things.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #120
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Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?

To be clear, I'm not on some let's trash Orakpo trip. Not at all.
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