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Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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Old 03-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #331
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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I understand personnel strategy and differences in philosophy, but I don't understand the argument with a Redskins player vs another Redskins player like Garçon vs Morris. I want both players even at Garçon's cap number. You have to utilize both methods to obtain players and every team's situation is different at any given point of the development of the team. The philosophy should be changing from year to year and not just free agency = bad and draft = good or vice versa. That's what these arguments were all heading towards. I don't think it's that black and white.
The player vs player arguments are salary cap related. I want to have the starters from both the NFC pro bowl team and the AFC pro bowl team here with the Redskins, but the salary cap prevents that. So choices have to be made based on production vs pay. When you make decisions based on that, the draft usually comes out ahead.

Again, im not saying FA isnt important, Im just saying that maintaining a winning team when they dont draft well is almost impossible. Maintaining a winning team that drafts well and doesnt do much in FA is more sustainable. So to me, the draft is, and always will be, more important.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:47 PM   #332
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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The player vs player arguments are salary cap related. I want to have the starters from both the NFC pro bowl team and the AFC pro bowl team here with the Redskins, but the salary cap prevents that. So choices have to be made based on production vs pay. When you make decisions based on that, the draft usually comes out ahead.

Again, im not saying FA isnt important, Im just saying that maintaining a winning team when they dont draft well is almost impossible. Maintaining a winning team that drafts well and doesnt do much in FA is more sustainable. So to me, the draft is, and always will be, more important.
But it's not a discussion of free agency vs the the draft. It's more a discussion of doing well in the draft. If you do well in the draft then you won't need to depend on free agency as much - except re-signing your own. Which is what the redskins have focused in so far but arguably moreso of the cap.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:52 PM   #333
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

And those that prefer the draft vs free agency - what's your standpoint with signing or re-signing a free agent cornerback?
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:06 PM   #334
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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But it's not a discussion of free agency vs the the draft. It's more a discussion of doing well in the draft. If you do well in the draft then you won't need to depend on free agency as much - except re-signing your own. Which is what the redskins have focused in so far but arguably moreso of the cap.
Either way, it boils down to the draft. You cant pay the FA prices to fill up a team and expect to have good players across your roster. Relying on FA usually results in little to no depth.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:19 PM   #335
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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Either way, it boils down to the draft. You cant pay the FA prices to fill up a team and expect to have good players across your roster. Relying on FA usually results in little to no depth.
What's your take on current redskins players that were signed or re-signed via free agency and/or trades? And also your opinion of signing a free agent cb, safety or offensive tackle?

Say you pick up 3 cb in the draft - are you prepared to cut Wilson as soon as they are drafted. This is the case you would be making. You have much more depth there with 3 cb instead of one and you get rid of his cap hit at the same time. You can do this for all of the players signed through free agency.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:23 PM   #336
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

I'm alone in valuing free agency. ALL of the NFL teams do too.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:28 PM   #337
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

I'm sure that there are probably at least a handful of starting players on each of the Super Bowl teams that were signed or re-signed in free agency.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:31 PM   #338
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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I'm sure that there are probably at least a handful of starting players on each of the Super Bowl teams that were signed or re-signed in free agency.
Ravens: Leach, Pollard, McKinney and of course Boldin.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:35 PM   #339
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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Ravens: Leach, Pollard, McKinney and of course Boldin.
I would include Jacoby Jones even though he's probably not listed as a starter, but it still bolsters my point.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #340
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

superbowls are a death spell for your FO. that's part of why it's so hard to repeat... every decent FA on a superbowl team tends to get pretty good outside offers.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:46 PM   #341
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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I would include Jacoby Jones even though he's probably not listed as a starter, but it still bolsters my point.
Actually he's a starting return specialist. So there is at least 5 right there.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:13 PM   #342
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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What's your take on current redskins players that were signed or re-signed via free agency and/or trades? And also your opinion of signing a free agent cb, safety or offensive tackle?

Say you pick up 3 cb in the draft - are you prepared to cut Wilson as soon as they are drafted. This is the case you would be making. You have much more depth there with 3 cb instead of one and you get rid of his cap hit at the same time. You can do this for all of the players signed through free agency.
Case and point...

RG3 counts 5 mil against the cap. Name a single free agent that we have signed that has the type of value that RG3 brings to the team. If he doesnt cut it for you, how about Alfred Morris.

I like the Garcon signing, but he will never be able to provide the value that RG3 and Alfmo can bring.

Here is a better question...

Do you want a 27 or 28 year old Garcon at 8 mil per? Or a 23 or 24 year old Garcon at less than 1 mil per?

I am not against signing players via free agency. Granted we need cap space to do so, but that still doesnt change the value that they bring to the team. And yes, you resign your own. I dont count that as a FA. When the Redskins resign RG3, im not going to be calling it the greatest FA pickup ever, I will still refer to it as a draft pick even though he is no longer on his rookie contract.

Also the Ravens are not a good team to bring up. Their major talent is homegrown. The rest was filled out through FA or trades. Which is what I have been saying the whole time. FA/trades should be used to supplement the team that was built through the draft. No team is ever going to be able to claim that they never signed a FA, but the consistently good ones build through the draft and supplement through FA.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:30 PM   #343
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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Case and point...

RG3 counts 5 mil against the cap. Name a single free agent that we have signed that has the type of value that RG3 brings to the team. If he doesnt cut it for you, how about Alfred Morris.

I like the Garcon signing, but he will never be able to provide the value that RG3 and Alfmo can bring.

Here is a better question...

Do you want a 27 or 28 year old Garcon at 8 mil per? Or a 23 or 24 year old Garcon at less than 1 mil per?

I am not against signing players via free agency. Granted we need cap space to do so, but that still doesnt change the value that they bring to the team. And yes, you resign your own. I dont count that as a FA. When the Redskins resign RG3, im not going to be calling it the greatest FA pickup ever, I will still refer to it as a draft pick even though he is no longer on his rookie contract.

Also the Ravens are not a good team to bring up. Their major talent is homegrown. The rest was filled out through FA or trades. Which is what I have been saying the whole time. FA/trades should be used to supplement the team that was built through the draft. No team is ever going to be able to claim that they never signed a FA, but the consistently good ones build through the draft and supplement through FA.
My point is its not about one vs the other. And with Garçon- you don't have that option. The option is to have Garcon with his salary cap hit or not have him on your team and less his salary. How much you value free agency is the real discussion. Not valuing the draft less or more. The draft is probably the most important way to build a team but the team that proved that they were the best had a good amount of Super Bowl players that made the biggest plays -that were signed through free agency.

And re-signing your own free agents is part of free agency. Please. You can't take that out of the discussion to help your argument.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:35 PM   #344
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

Without the players the ravens signed through Free Agency, they don't win the Super Bowl. They probably don't even get to the Super Bowl.

Last edited by warriorzpath; 03-13-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:40 PM   #345
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Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

Don't argue with me with the value of the draft because I know it's the most important. Using the importance of the draft to argue against the value of free agency is what bothers me. You need to be good in free agency as well as being good in the draft - which is the most important thing (please remember I said that)
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