Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

CrazyCanuck · 01-08-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If you're going to rename things, i think it would be helpful to have three different rows: One called "Cap Penalties," "Cap Credits" and a "Net Penalty/Credit" which shows the net of the two. Maybe another name for the last column would be better, but i can see this being a continuing point of confusion throughout the offseason. If i hadnt read your post in the other thread, i wouldnt have understood what the the factors went into the "credits" calculation.

If thats too complicated, maybe we could just have a footnote or something on the page that explains how the "Cap Penalties & Credits" was calculated.

Maybe I'll add some explanation to the notes page too. I never had cap penalties listed cuz they never existed before this year. I guess Vinny ran a tighter ship than Bruce Allen.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 01-08-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck

Sorry if the sheets are confusing but yes the $18M for 2012 is included.

The penalty is part of "cap credits" at the bottom. We took an $18M penalty but we had $13M of credits from the year before. So works out to ~$5M.

Thank you very much for the clarification.

So since we had a credit of 13mil then the ramifications of the next 18mil could be a little more severe to how we are able to work our roster this offseason. Is that a fair assessment CC?

CRedskinsRule · 01-08-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

Thank you very much for the clarification.

So since we had a credit of 13mil then the ramifications of the next 18mil could be a little more severe to how we are able to work our roster this offseason. Is that a fair assessment CC?

I think someone else said it, but we will be able to use cap magic to push a lot of numbers into 2014 if need be, where our cap should seem huge compared to this coming year. Basically we will have the ability, through reworks, option bonuses, etc to offset it's effects to some degree. I imagine we will be in about the same position as we were this year once all is said and done.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-08-2013, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think someone else said it, but we will be able to use cap magic to push a lot of numbers into 2014 if need be, where our cap should seem huge compared to this coming year. Basically we will have the ability, through reworks, option bonuses, etc to offset it's effects to some degree. I imagine we will be in about the same position as we were this year once all is said and done.

I'm sure we'll get by... but it will negatively affect what we could otherwise do in this offseason and in future seasons. Its a good feeling to be able to cut DHall next year without taking any sort of hit. By working "magic" to get by in 2013, we wont be in that same position in future years.

CRedskinsRule · 01-08-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm sure we'll get by... but it will negatively affect what we could otherwise do in this offseason and in future seasons. Its a good feeling to be able to cut DHall next year without taking any sort of hit. By working "magic" to get by in 2013, we wont be in that same position in future years.

maybe, but so far BA has shown a good ability to manage the situation. I am sure there will be some negative effect, after all it was a 36Million dollar handicap to the rest of the league. But my belief is that we will be better prepared to deal with it this year, than last when it was sprung after all the plans had been made. And if any relief at all is given, well so much the better.

CrazyCanuck · 01-08-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

Thank you very much for the clarification.

So since we had a credit of 13mil then the ramifications of the next 18mil could be a little more severe to how we are able to work our roster this offseason. Is that a fair assessment CC?

Yes that is a fair assessment. But like CRed said I don't think these issues are insurmountable. A couple restructures and cap related moves and we should be ok.

In the Vinny days we didn't have to deal with penalties but always had big deadcap charges. For instance when we traded Coles for Moss we took an instant $9M deadcap hit.

So while $18M sounds (and is) a lot, it's not that big of a deal, at least in Redskins cap land.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 01-08-2013, 05:00 PM

Gotcha. Still this isn't optimal.

Thanks for all the info!

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-08-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

maybe, but so far BA has shown a good ability to manage the situation. I am sure there will be some negative effect, after all it was a 36Million dollar handicap to the rest of the league. But my belief is that we will be better prepared to deal with it this year, than last when it was sprung after all the plans had been made. And if any relief at all is given, well so much the better.

I guess another way of looking at it is if there were no uncapped year, we would have been screwed anyway because we'd have been stuck with all those horrible contracts (that we dumped in the uncapped year).

CRedskinsRule · 01-08-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I guess another way of looking at it is if there were no uncapped year, we would have been screwed anyway because we'd have been stuck with all those horrible contracts (that we dumped in the uncapped year).

Right, I think the 36 million was basically the sum of those horrible contracts, and in a sense rather than taking some untimely/insurmountable hit, we made them slightly more manageable, and with some reasonably benign cap magic we make them **disappear** (waving a wand of course)

SCRedskinsFan · 01-08-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I guess another way of looking at it is if there were no uncapped year, we would have been screwed anyway because we'd have been stuck with all those horrible contracts (that we dumped in the uncapped year).

I've asked this before: Has anyone added up the benefit to our cap numbers by dumping the Haynesworth contract etc? I just wonder what real net penalty (if any) we incurred when all is said and done...

ethat001 · 01-08-2013, 09:41 PM

The real net penalty would be more than numbers, it would have to include the

(1) last minute notice before FA which prevented us from advance planning
(2) forcing us to take it all up front instead of over a few years as we would have done w/o uncapped year

SCRedskinsFan · 01-08-2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethat001

The real net penalty would be more than numbers, it would have to include the

(1) last minute notice before FA which prevented us from advance planning
(2) forcing us to take it all up front instead of over a few years as we would have done w/o uncapped year

True, but over time we would have incurred the full cap hit. I was just trying to understand whether the penalty exceeds the full effect of the contract dump in dollars and cents.

HailGreen28 · 01-08-2013, 10:18 PM

If our cap penalty was wiped out, wouldn't that mean that the other teams would have to give up the $800K or so cap space they got to make the overall cap of the NFL stay the same?

HailGreen28 · 01-08-2013, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCRedskinsFan

True, but over time we would have incurred the full cap hit. I was just trying to understand whether the penalty exceeds the full effect of the contract dump in dollars and cents.

According to this article LINK, we spent over $225 Million. ($123+$102) The salary cap for 2009 was $128 mil. So yeah, the $36 mil penalty isn't as much as we "overspent" in the uncapped year.

Still, springing the penalty on the literal eve of free agency was a dick move by Goodell/Mara that cost us beyond dollars.

I think we still came out ahead, but we shouldn't have been penalized in the first place. In a just world, the penalty doesn't stick, and Danny and Jerrah get to sit back and laugh as owners that depend on revenue sharing try to figure out how to stay afloat while the NFL loses billions in a collusion lawsuit to the NFLPA. And all the fingers point at Mara for causing this disaster.

Hog1 · 01-08-2013, 10:43 PM

I would think Dan and Jerra are are not very forgiving sort of fellas'. If I were involved in their teams cap penalties, I would be watchin' my respective ass.....
Like that Giants guy......
kicking they're ass out of the playoffs must feel good to Dan...

01-08-2013, 05:00 PM	#82
artmonkforhallofamein07 HST - "Hey Rube" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Charleston , SC Posts: 3,906	re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away Gotcha. Still this isn't optimal. Thanks for all the info! __________________ Robert Griffin III welcome to the Washington Redskins! Year 1 - NFC EAST Champions at 10-6 Year 2 - Comeback player of the year??? 12-4??? Divisional round playoff game at home??? Superbowl??? 8-8 or worse??? We just have to wait impatiently to find out. http://site.fandangoracinginc.com/

01-08-2013, 09:41 PM	#86
ethat001 Impact Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 632	re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away The real net penalty would be more than numbers, it would have to include the (1) last minute notice before FA which prevented us from advance planning (2) forcing us to take it all up front instead of over a few years as we would have done w/o uncapped year

01-08-2013, 10:18 PM	#88
HailGreen28 The Starter Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,681	re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away If our cap penalty was wiped out, wouldn't that mean that the other teams would have to give up the $800K or so cap space they got to make the overall cap of the NFL stay the same?

01-08-2013, 10:43 PM	#90
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 8,373	re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away I would think Dan and Jerra are are not very forgiving sort of fellas'. If I were involved in their teams cap penalties, I would be watchin' my respective ass..... Like that Giants guy...... kicking they're ass out of the playoffs must feel good to Dan... __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... Win! Always win! By fair means or foul, by soft words and hard deeds... by treachery, by cunning, by malpractice... but always win--Edward Teach

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Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away

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