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Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Old 02-23-2013, 09:16 AM   #196
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
........ok, anyone, anyone,"Bueller? Bueller?"

It's a terrible argument, but it doesn't undo the good arguments already made.

If, as the Linguistic professor's essay already showed, "Redskin" was a direct translation of what American Indians called themselves (which would also account for why, when Indians learned English, they referred to Europeans as "White Man") AND the story of "redskin" origin being for bloody scalps is a lie, then there is actually no grounds to take offense to the name other than that you are just a miserable person looking to dump on other people's fun. To which I would suggest finding some other hobby.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:46 AM   #197
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
It's a terrible argument, but it doesn't undo the good arguments already made.

If, as the Linguistic professor's essay already showed, "Redskin" was a direct translation of what American Indians called themselves (which would also account for why, when Indians learned English, they referred to Europeans as "White Man") AND the story of "redskin" origin being for bloody scalps is a lie, then there is actually no grounds to take offense to the name other than that you are just a miserable person looking to dump on other people's fun. To which I would suggest finding some other hobby.
The origin of the word is not necessarily where it is now. The N word was originally a neutral word that originated because of the area around the river in the Africa.

As I said earlier, both sides of the argument have their points with the word "Redskin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

Quote:
"Redskin" is a racial descriptor for the indigenous peoples of the Americas and one of the color metaphors for race used in North America and Europe since European colonization of the Western Hemisphere.

"Red" as a color metaphor for indigenous people in the Americas is also without being compounded with "skins", as in the "Red Power" movement in the US in the 1960s and 70s or the 1970 "Red Paper" on Indian policy published by the Indian Chiefs of Alberta in Canada their leader Harold Cardinal.

The term is controversial as it is considered by some to be extremely offensive (an r-word for Native Americans equivalent to the n-word for African-Americans)[1], but neutral by others.[2] The consensus based upon a comparison of current dictionary definitions is that the term has negative or disparaging connotations.[3]
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #198
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by Leader In Sports View Post
The origin of the word is not necessarily where it is now. The N word was originally a neutral word that originated because of the area around the river in the Africa.

As I said earlier, both sides of the argument have their points with the word "Redskin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)
When you have one side backed by history, logic, and usage of the name today... and the other side backed by nothing but their own little group's beliefs today (not even a significant number of NA's)... then only one side has a point.

In a way, it's like the "evolution/creationism" debate. One side has history, logic, and usage of correct scientific methods today.... and the other side has nothing but their own little group's beliefs today (sure more Christians believe in creationism, but not a majority.)

So by the "logic" of the Redskins naming debate, I guess we should do away with evolutionary theory, because it offends a lot more people than the name "Redskins"?
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #199
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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When you have one side backed by history, logic, and usage of the name today... and the other side backed by nothing but their own little group's beliefs today (not even a significant number of NA's)... then only one side has a point.

In a way, it's like the "evolution/creationism" debate. One side has history, logic, and usage of correct scientific methods today.... and the other side has nothing but their own little group's beliefs today (sure more Christians believe in creationism, but not a majority.)

So by the "logic" of the Redskins naming debate, I guess we should do away with evolutionary theory, because it offends a lot more people than the name "Redskins"?
Honestly, I started reading your statement about one side backed by history, logic etc and thought you were arguing the other point.

Like I said, both sides have really good arguments and strong feelings. On a Redskin fan forum, you will see a strong slant to that side. Just like on other forums, you could see a strong slant the other way.

This discussion really has no where left to go on here.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:48 AM   #200
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Honestly, I started reading your statement about one side backed by history, logic etc and thought you were arguing the other point.

Like I said, both sides have really good arguments and strong feelings. On a Redskin fan forum, you will see a strong slant to that side. Just like on other forums, you could see a strong slant the other way.

This discussion really has no where left to go on here.
What history or logic backs the idea of the name "Redskins" being offensive? Other than already refuted theories and a small number of people (almost all not NA's) just saying it is?
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:05 AM   #201
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

I guess if we use another example of an offensive team name, there's a team that plays in mostly black, and has a name synonymous with "Stealers". And they live in a city known for racism today.* There's obviously racist undertones in the name "Steelers", camouflaged by the AISI logo. Even saw a game recently where their throwback uniforms resembled some comical prison outfits. The name "Steelers" should be banned immediately. :cheeky-sm

the-most-racist-city-in-america-pittsburgh

Pittsburgh basketball game marred by horrible racist banana suited monkey chants
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #202
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by HailGreen28 View Post
What history or logic backs the idea of the name "Redskins" being offensive? Other than already refuted theories and a small number of people (almost all not NA's) just saying it is?
Just read ,please.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:05 PM   #203
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
It's a terrible argument, but it doesn't undo the good arguments already made.

If, as the Linguistic professor's essay already showed, "Redskin" was a direct translation of what American Indians called themselves (which would also account for why, when Indians learned English, they referred to Europeans as "White Man") AND the story of "redskin" origin being for bloody scalps is a lie, then there is actually no grounds to take offense to the name other than that you are just a miserable person looking to dump on other people's fun. To which I would suggest finding some other hobby.
First I think the Redskins should keep everything as is !!What proof do you have this is a lie?Ok,you don't like his opinion but like it or not there is some fact to this story and to try and accuse others of lying when in fact your argument has gone south is wrong.

" However a wide range of civil rights[15], and professional organizations [16] [17] and over 500 American Indian groups [18] have called for the end of the use of all Native American references by sports teams."
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:55 PM   #204
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Giantone, why don't you please read this thread? What argument of the name "Redskin" being somehow racist today, in the wikipedia article you quote, hasn't been debunked in this thread?

It's not as if the Redskins organization is the NYPD, after all.* So why bash the Skins for imagined racism, when real racism exists elsewhere? Like NY and Pitt.


*
Racist NYPD Facebook Group

NYPD's Racist Arrests Create Class War in New York

Last edited by HailGreen28; 02-23-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:50 PM   #205
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

Oh, well, a WIKIPEDIA article. That's authoritative.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:45 AM   #206
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by HailGreen28 View Post
Giantone, why don't you please read this thread? What argument of the name "Redskin" being somehow racist today, in the wikipedia article you quote, hasn't been debunked in this thread?

It's not as if the Redskins organization is the NYPD, after all.* So why bash the Skins for imagined racism, when real racism exists elsewhere? Like NY and Pitt.


*
Racist NYPD Facebook Group

NYPD's Racist Arrests Create Class War in New York
I'm sure to some Native Americans.....it is real racism.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:06 AM   #207
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
I'm sure to some Native Americans.....it is real racism.
So find them and cite them as a source instead of just being sure.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:50 AM   #208
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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I'm sure to some Native Americans.....it is real racism.
Based on your posting history, your being "sure" is proof the name isn't racist.

OTOH, I'm sure all Redskins fans are "thrilled" to be labelled as racist. For using an honorific team name. Just like when the same kind of talking heads that decry the name, said that Redskins fans would be racist against RG3. LINK Any fanbase would "love" this. (That was sarcasm by the way since you might have missed it.)

And no, being lied about, like about the origin of the team name and the name itself, isn't reason to give in to said liars and ignorance. Just the opposite, IMO. Tell the truth instead.

HTTR

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Old 02-24-2013, 11:53 AM   #209
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

Giants is an offensive term to people that suffer from gigantism. I think we should change their name.

Broncos is also a slur against horses. It implies they are unruly. I think the proper name should be Denver Equus ferus caballus.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:42 PM   #210
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Re: Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

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So find them and cite them as a source instead of just being sure.
post 210
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