Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I've already got it in my calendar on my computer.

Its also in my computer's calendar.

[Leader In Sports]

Some of this post will be obvious to you diehards, but not everyone knows the history of the skins:

George Preston Marshall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1932, he and three other partners were awarded an NFL franchise for Boston. This team became known as the Boston Braves, as they played on the same field as baseball's Boston Braves. Marshall's partners left the team after one season, leaving him in control. In 1933 he moved the team from Braves Field to Fenway Park, changing the team nickname to the Redskins.

Marshall has gained infamy for his intractable opposition to having African-Americans on his roster. According to professor Charles Ross, "For 24 years Marshall was identified as the leading racist in the NFL".

I have many friends that have played for the team and love the history associated with the name. I also see that if you flipped it to another skin color, it may be more clear for others. Tough call when you see both sides of the argument as having merit.

Remember in the 1930's there were many other names for different minority groups. While the groups did not have the political clout to do anything about them at that time, in our era they are considered HIGHLY offensive.

[Evilgrin]

The Skins history is very sordid, but that is part of what makes it so interesting. I'm not proud of the history, but we can't change it, and we should never ever forget it. His racism had a huge part in our rivalry with the Cowboys.

I said earlier in the thread that, its not fair to call people racist for supporting the name. I was probably 20 before I had any idea that it was a racial slur, maybe even older. Different people have totally different perceptions of the word.

All that said, I'm on the side of change the name.

[T.O.Killa]

What would we call them the Washington Indians.

Hail to the Indians.
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Fight!, Fight!, Fight!
Hail to the Indians
Hail Vic-tor-y
Braves on the Warpath
Fight for old D.C.

It sucks, I still dont believe the term Redskin is a slur. In my mind it is a term used to describe a warrior. A real tuff dude with an bow and arrow.

[Leader In Sports]

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.

[CultBrennan59]

This is the problem with the world today. People take offense to almost anything someone says today.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I'd be fine changing the name if we got our 36MM in cap space back and John Mara was tarred and feathered and the giants lost all their draft picks for e next 3 years. oh, and all the other teams with potentially offensive names changed their names too. saints could be offensive to Catholics and atheists alike. Packer could be a derogatory name for a gay man, so that name should change too. Use of the names Titans would be offensive to ancient Greeks. I think one day, buccaneer or dolphin could be turned into a derogatory word for some minority so it's probably best to be proactive and just change the name now. Just to be safe, all teams should just be assigned a number, numbers will probably never be offensive to anyone.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'd be fine changing the name if we got our 36MM in cap space back and John Mara was tarred and feathered and the giants lost all their draft picks for e next 3 years. oh, and all the other teams with potentially offensive names changed their names too. saints could be offensive to Catholics and atheists alike. Packer could be a derogatory name for a gay man, so that name should change too. Use of the names Titans would be offensive to ancient Greeks. I think one day, buccaneer or dolphin could be turned into a derogatory word for some minority so it's probably best to be proactive and just change the name now. Just to be safe, all teams should just be assigned a number, numbers will probably never be offensive to anyone.

Packer=fudgeman & throbbing

Greaseman days!!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

........Man card, please

You drink a few of my Apple Martinis and you will realize you need a man card to handle them.

[SFREDSKIN]

http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I wouldn't walk up to a fat man and call him Giant to his face or a gay man and call him a Packer. Does that mean those team names are offensive too?

Just because a word could bee twisted by a bad person to deride someone else, doesn't mean the word itself is inherently offensive. The word itself is not offensive, was not created to be offensive, and was not viewed as offensive when the name was chosen for the team. If it was, no one would have wanted to play for the team because the players would be associating themselves with something they looked down upon.

The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

[GMScud]

Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Now comes Florio saying RGIII needs to "do the right thing" and be the catalyst for the name change....

Momentum builds for a Redskins name change, and one man can make it happen | ProFootballTalk

It's whiners like Florio who don't care if the name changes, he wants to be the guy the floated the idea. It's like the old SF mayor Gavin "douchebag" Newsom started the whole gay marriage movement for his own popularity to get elected governor not because he cared about gay people. Screw those a-holes with their own agenda.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

But it was not a racist term at the time it was chosen to name the team, and that's the point. The majority of people who complain about the team name are upper middle class white people who feel taking e position that the name is racist makes them more enlightened than everyone else. One fifth of the world is starving. Millions of people In this country are unemployed, but these people pick the name of a sports team as a cause to rally behind? Find a worthwhile cause and leave the redskins the F alone.