Smithsonian Museum - yet another thread on team name

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

I think it would be impossible to say a "whole race" with any word. You will always have someone who will "own" the word.

That is what is evolving with the N word. There is a portion of African American society that is taking ownership of the word, and an entirely different portion that is offended by the action. We are discussing shades of gray, not black and white.

I disagree entirely with that. If a non black uses the n word it will only be received negatively, even though within the black community it has some slang uses. But none of those uses would rise to the positive connotation of the term Redskins when used referring to the football team. There is far more contrast with respect to those terms than simple shades of gray.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

If you look in a thesaurus, "Yellow Man" is a derogatory term for an Asian. Same with Redskin for a Native American. Back when the Redskins were name (1933), Redskin was a common term, as was Yellow Man, the N word (see what I mean) and many other terms that are now offensive.

I personally don't see a problem with a name like the Chiefs, Braves, Warriors etc as they are not negative terms. They are no different than the Raiders, Vikings, Bucs etc.

Look at it this way, would you walk up to a Native American and refer to him as a "Redskin" to his face? That to me is a good way to judge if the term is offensive.

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

The difference with your examples and others are the Packers were named after meat packers. The Giants were named after mythical, larger than life figures. Redskins were always intended to represent Native Americans.

You actually destroy your first answer with your second. The intent of the words you are using were not in question back in the day. Nigger (If its censored, which I suspect it will, the n-word) and Yellow man were ALWAYS meant as a racist term aka a derogatory term. Redskin was neutral until 20 or 30 years ago.

Red Mesa High School - Home

Here is one Indian Reservation that I would go to and say Redskin, since they themselves do it as well. I have also worn Redskins gear onto a different Indian reservation. It did not turn out how you want to claim that it would. I got high fives and a large portion were Redskins fans themselves.

Do the Indians have a say in this? And if not, isnt that in and of itself racist?

[Leader In Sports]

At this point I am going to bow out of this conversation, especially since I legitimately see both points, but am sort of in a position to only debate from the one side. I will close with this.

I grew up out West (the town RG3 is from for a time and then the Phoenix area for a majority of my childhood). I am old enough to remember the Indian school in Phoenix where children were essentially forceably removed from their parents to assimilate the future generations into our culture. The children were also then "hired out" to local families as house keepers, babysitters etc.

As strongly as most of the diehard fans feel about the issue on this site feel, even stronger are the people objecting because of real life issues. Just try to look at things from the other side and while your position might not change, your feelings towards their efforts might.

[NC_Skins]

I lived in NC my whole life, and my mother's family is from Fayetteville, NC. I have never in my 40 years of living heard anybody use the term Redskins as a derogatory meaning. I seriously doubt the claim by LoS that he heard it used out West. Mind you, Fayetteville is part of the area the Lumbee Indians call home. (formerly Cherokees)

Welcome to Lumbee Tribe

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

At this point I am going to bow out of this conversation, especially since I legitimately see both points, but am sort of in a position to only debate from the one side. I will close with this.

I grew up out West (the town RG3 is from for a time and then the Phoenix area for a majority of my childhood). I am old enough to remember the Indian school in Phoenix where children were essentially forceably removed from their parents to assimilate the future generations into our culture. The children were also then "hired out" to local families as house keepers, babysitters etc.

As strongly as most of the diehard fans feel about the issue on this site feel, even stronger are the people objecting because of real life issues. Just try to look at things from the other side and while your position might not change, your feelings towards their efforts might.

I don't see how the name of a football team has anything to do with any of that. The key facts are this:

1. The name redskin was coined by native Americans to refer to themselves. It had no derogatory usage at the time.

2. When the name was chosen for the team, it was still not pejorative.

3. LATER, SOME people may have used the word in a pejorative way.

4. Today, the word is not used in a derogatory way. When the name redskin is used, people universally think of the team.

[SFREDSKIN]

Why don't they run a poll with different Native American tribes and ask what they would rename the Redskins to. It would be an interesting test.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Why don't they run a poll with different Native American tribes and ask what they would rename the Redskins to. It would be an interesting test.

I have a better idea. Why don't we just send blankets with small pox to mike florio, mike wise, and all the other people who claim the name is racist without understanding the facts.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I see we pick and choose. I said in another post I thought this was over years ago,it seems kind of silly to keep rehashing this thing.


here it is....

Washington Redskins can keep team name; Supreme Court refuses native Americans' suit - CSMonitor.com

Your one-line "free dictionary" post earlier was stupid, unsupported, and refuted by numerous posts before and since. That's the point.

Not to mention the "free dictionary" cites one tribe in a non-derogatory fashion, never mind all the other tribes associated non-derogatorily with "REDSKINS". So the "free dictionary" link doesn't even support itself about the name being somehow offensive.

So again, thanks for proving the name isn't offensive. Whether you meant to or not, lol.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Your one-line "free dictionary" post earlier was stupid, .

sorry you feel that way.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

sorry you feel that way.

Well, look at the bright side. For example, your post did provide a good example how not to trust a lot of "free" sources on the internet, however unintentionally.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Well, look at the bright side. For example, your post did provide a good example how not to trust a lot of "free" sources on the internet, however unintentionally.

I'm just very thankfull you were here to let me know.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I'm just very thankfull you were here to let me know.

lol. Concession accepted, and like you and others have said, time to move along.

[Son Of Man]

Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.

[VTSkins1961]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.

I hope that it doesn't change but If they were forced to change the name I would want it be changed back to the "Braves" the original name.

[Leader In Sports]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

Unless you are Native American, your feeling on the matter (either way) is irrelevant. Borderline self-serving.

No matter what you feel about the issue of the name, I will strongly disagree with this statement. (now I am back out of this discussion):

First they came... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.