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Can we stop now please?

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Old 03-09-2005, 10:52 PM   #1
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Can we stop now please?

From the Washington Post article about Gibbs presser,
"Trading wide receiver Laveranues Coles to the New York Jets for wideout Santana Moss caused a salary-cap bind after a $9 million cap hit (with a net cap cost of roughly $6 million). Nonetheless, Gibbs indicated the Redskins wouldn't have gone above their budget to sign Pierce or Smoot even if the club had had more cap room."

They weren't going to spend the money regardless.. Lets stop blaming the trade for everything and move on..
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:06 PM   #2
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Re: Can we stop now please?

I agree, we do need to stop.

And everyone has to realize that Smoot in no way deserves more than Springs, Pierce does not deserve more than M. Washington and Coles is a piece of crap that has no right to question joe freaking gibbs. Last I checked he has a bum toe, and has pissed off every team he has played for.

Sure Smoot and Pierce have been here longer than Springs and Washington, but the flip side of that is where is the loyalty?

Smoot wasn't our best corner and Pierce was not our best Linebacker, there is no arguing that. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE PAY THEM OTHERWISE??
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:25 PM   #3
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Re: Can we stop now please?

Yeah...the Jets were so pissed they wanted to match the offer. Then, they wanted that bastard back. What an asshole.
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:58 PM   #4
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Re: Can we stop now please?

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Yeah...the Jets were so pissed they wanted to match the offer. Then, they wanted that bastard back. What an asshole.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:00 AM   #5
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Re: Can we stop now please?

Well the problem is this. If a player complains he doesn't want to be here are you simply just gonna let him go. Disregaurding all the consequences that loom. Mainly a salary cap hit. Basically we traded a great WR for sub-par talent. They are on no equal levels I do not care what you say it is true. If LaVar wanted out would you take the cap hit for a meriocre LB like Ike Reese. No, you wouldn't, this trade hurt us in more than one ways. One is that we let two core guys go and 2. Obviously no one is running this front office right. Coles will flourish being back with the Jets, him and C. Penn. were a deadly combo when he was there. I wouldn't bet the book on Santana Moss signing a long term deal with us either. David Patten is good not great, then if we draft a WR that will take a couple of years to bring him up. I love the Skins to death, but there offseason priorities were mixed up this year. I feel Smoot deserves more money than Springs. Smoot is going to give you everything he has on the field. Sure he might get burned once or twice, but who doesn't in the league. Only time will tell you about letting these players go. Pierce may not do all that great, but Smoot will be alright.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:12 AM   #6
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Re: Can we stop now please?

gibbs is covering his ass.
coles went to gibbs after the season and said he didnt want to be there anymore. coles did it right. man to man. didnt get the media involved. gibbs told coles he would release him if he gave up money coming to him. coles agreed. but gibbs lied to coles and didnt cut him. then coles told team he wanted a new contract just so the teams wouldnt trade for him. but the jets did.

i dont blame coles, every receiver on the team and every redskins fan hated the redskins passing game last year.

another thing, to let smoot go for 300k is bullshit on the skins. i just flat out dont think williams wants him on the team. i trust williams more than gibbs at this point, even thought i love smoot. but regardless, to let a player go for 300k is bullshit, hell they removed the offer so smoot wouldnt have been able to take the pay cut anyways.

no one should ever blame smoot for seeing what he could get through free agency. everyone here would've done the same thing.

who cares what springs signed for, we got him at a bargain price because of his past injuries. smoot deserved what he got. he earned it. he played harder than anyone on the team in the last 4 years. smoot has everyright to get as much as possible, this is the biggest contract he will ever get(maybe the last), he has to take care of his family. take care smoot.

pierce, only had one good year. he needs to prove he isnt a product of the system like trotter. so who cares about him.


gibbs is making some bigtime mistakes and blaming other people. i agree we need to move on, but we do need to realize gibbs is becoming a problem(btw, i love gibbs).

outlook: hopefully patten and moss are the types of receivers gibbs wants. hopefully gibbs opens up his passing game to include routes that are run downfield not only comeback routes. if he does that, portis should have an awesome year. hopefully they fix the blocking schemes because on paper, the OLine looks great but on grass they play like shit. getting jansen back is a big plus. rabach can hold his own. samuels should play better.

there is alot of hope for us. but it relies on joe gibbs and the changes he is making. gibbs could very easily get things into full swing the skins could be back into the SB hunt.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:14 AM   #7
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Re: Can we stop now please?

See above post.
BRILLANT! Well said jamf
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:18 AM   #8
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Re: Can we stop now please?

wow jamf... first smoot got paid very well in excess of what the skins could have possibly offered. he would average 6mill his first 3 years, we got 2mill in free space this year and we're 10mill over next year's cap as it stand now. It wasn't even close to just 300k.

And if you've listened to gibbs last 3 press conferences, you'd know his reasoning whether you like it or not. In order to get better price/performance from players, you gotta stop being known as the NFL's ATM. If we pay smoot more now, springs (or the next corner) is going to expect a hell of a lot more, since they're better than the highest earner on the team... its precedent.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:22 AM   #9
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Re: Can we stop now please?

I'm too lazy to look at Canuck's excellent cap sheets, but are there some FAs on our team coming up next year that we may need to "break the bank" to keep? Ramsey maybe? And that's why the Skins were "fiscally conservative" this offseason, to prepare themselves for next spring?
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:30 AM   #10
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Re: Can we stop now please?

For what it's worth, Gibbs said over and over (as is his way) at the press conference that this is all his responsibility. He didn't blame anyone else that I heard. People on this board may have (I, for one) but not Gibbs.

As for Smoot, the bonus wasn't the money problem, it was the front-loaded 1st 3 years. Over the next three years it's a much bigger cap hit than the deal we offered, and it in effect guarantees Smoot a lot more, because the odds are hight that you play and get paid.

The Coles thing is becoming a he said/she said kind of thing. It's done: we took the cap hit, got a less talented receiver, and we still have to ink him (if we want to) to a long term deal. As for Gibbs being the problem, well, if you believe the papers, Coles said he felt it was gonna work out with the skins until the story hit the press and Danny went ape-shit. Sounds more like Danny's the problem, what a surprise there. But Coles gave up on GIbbs after ONE season, and that's weak, whatever else went on. Screw him for that.

As you said, Jamf, Gibbs could make it work next year and the changes will seem fine. I'm an optimist about it, because I think the key on offense is the O-line and the key on defense is Williams. Both outght to be cooking next year.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:34 AM   #11
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Re: Can we stop now please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
wow jamf... first smoot got paid very well in excess of what the skins could have possibly offered. he would average 6mill his first 3 years, we got 2mill in free space this year and we're 10mill over next year's cap as it stand now. It wasn't even close to just 300k.
i meant 300k more in signing bonus. paying smoot 2 mill a year for the first 3 years is a bargain.

btw, if the skins draft a corner with the 9th pick, he is going to get nearly the same amount of money.


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Originally Posted by That Guy
If we pay smoot more now, springs (or the next corner) is going to expect a hell of a lot more, since they're better than the highest earner on the team... its precedent.
thats going to happen anyways.

springs is still undercontract for several more years, so it doesnt matter what smoot makes compared to springs.

one points you're missing is every year the salary cap increases with players salaries. also, players salaries are determined by demand. cornerbacks are in demand. ken lucas and henry are not as good as springs, but they are making more than he is. thats how free agency works.
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Old 03-10-2005, 02:24 AM   #12
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Re: Can we stop now please?

Gibbs lied, Coles did it right. Don't judt release Coles and he ends up with the Cowboys or Giants. Bad enough about Pierce. Trade him out of the conference altogether, get Santana Moss in return,less than half mil. yr and who I think will do more for us.
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:19 AM   #13
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Re: Can we stop now please?

I hear people saying someone needs to learn to run the front office, have you given it any thought that this might be the right approach finally, with not giving in to these high salary demands and keeping core groups of players together. As much as they say they wanted to be core redskins take the good money and commit to that of what you were offered fair value to be with your team. I don't fault them, but come on the front office can only go so far and they have gone way beyond that in the past spending, put a stop to it and pay only what they deserve, not what the player thinks he deserves.

Smoot and Pierce made statements that the offers would have to be mind blowing for them to leave. The only person I heard that committed themselves to exactly that is a coach by the name of Gregg Williams who would have been in high demand this year, I'm sure. Smoot and Pierce figures were not off by that much, Smoot specifically 1 to 2 mil won't make me go. Right!!!

If we would have signed them to these deals in another year we would be having the same discussion about Springs and Marcus Washington and other players when they outplayed the other players again and playing for a lower salary. It goes on they finally have a plan to try to bring some unity between the players, but you can't sacrifice a team for a player. As much as I would have love to have brought all the players back and build onto that, but that is not how it works every team has to give up big name and key players every year.

Let's finally make up for the mistakes we have made for the last four or five years in our free agency purges. Money is really tight for the skins for the reasons everyone is arguing about. We have made a name for ourselves as big spenders and it will take a year or two to change that and gain key players because we are a winning organization and not a bank for people to come in for big contracts and then go back to other teams for alot less. Eagles/Patriots/Jets. Winning is the reason key players stay with those organizations. Their are money hungry players and indiviulist all through this league, but at leat two of those teams I names above you never hear year after year with a high turnover or off the wall moves. Bring in one or two key players a year to fill in those voids from the previous season.
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:38 AM   #14
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Re: Can we stop now please?

jamf: paying smoot nothing and having harris or wilds step up...now THAT is a bargain.

This reminds me a lot of when the Chargers dumped Seau and Harrison. Everybody cried over that and two years later they are in the playoffs. (We keep trying to use the Pats as a comparison but I am a little more realistic. The Chargers and Skins have young QB's, awesome RB's, no WR's and I don't think most people would see Pierce as better than Seau or Smoot as better than Harrison. The dlesson to be learned from the Bolts is to not get tied up with emotions and maybe just maybe, in two years we can be $20 mil under the cap too.)
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:52 AM   #15
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Re: Can we stop now please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamf
gibbs is covering his ass.
coles went to gibbs after the season and said he didnt want to be there anymore. coles did it right. man to man. didnt get the media involved. gibbs told coles he would release him if he gave up money coming to him. coles agreed. but gibbs lied to coles and didnt cut him. then coles told team he wanted a new contract just so the teams wouldnt trade for him. but the jets did.
No actually the release was Synder's idea and was never officially agreed to from the Skins perspective. So you can't say that Gibbs lied because he didn't.
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Originally Posted by jamf
i dont blame coles, every receiver on the team and every redskins fan hated the redskins passing game last year.
He was getting paid enough that he didn't have the right to put the team in this position. Plus he had the second most balls thrown his way in the NFL. Plus Gibbs promised him they were making wholesale changes to the offense. Plus Ramsey would be starting which would automatically make it better in terms of downfield attack. Lots of pluses there.
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Originally Posted by jamf
another thing, to let smoot go for 300k is bullshit on the skins. i just flat out dont think williams wants him on the team. i trust williams more than gibbs at this point, even thought i love smoot. but regardless, to let a player go for 300k is bullshit, hell they removed the offer so smoot wouldnt have been able to take the pay cut anyways.
First it is alleged (and not by super reliable source) that they either removed the offer or lowered it. It didn't make any sense for them to do that since he was getting little action. They had to think their offer was the best he was gonna get. Why lower it? Thye probably didn't. That wa speculation.
Second they lost him for more like 4 million when you account for the higher first three years of salary. This is a common ploy perfected by our very own Redskins to steal a FA away. We always backload deals on current players to keep cap room. It is planned out years in advance. Vikings made a good move to frontload it knowing we wouldn't do it.
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Originally Posted by jamf
no one should ever blame smoot for seeing what he could get through free agency. everyone here would've done the same thing.
100% agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamf
gibbs is making some bigtime mistakes and blaming other people. i agree we need to move on, but we do need to realize gibbs is becoming a problem(btw, i love gibbs).
exactly who else is he blaming. i seem to remember hearing him take responsibility about 100 times now. this is an asanine statement.
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