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Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Old 06-26-2013, 06:56 PM   #226
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Although it is still possible that someone else in the car besides Hernandez did the actual shooting.
And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:00 PM   #227
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Court has issued a gag order so I think this all we will hear for a while.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:07 PM   #228
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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And that is definitely true. But in felony murder, if he was in the car at the same time he will be charged as if he pulled the trigger.

In my opinion, with the court testimony today, short of some huge frame up, which no one is alleging yet, I think a reasonable person can make some basic judgements. Still, I would hope that the jurors that here this case, if no plea deal follows, would go in with the belief that the cops, prosecutors, and DA's office have the burden to show he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

My issue always is people riding the wave of immediate, unverified, items that people are pulling out left and right.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:11 PM   #229
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If the police have followed the proper procedures, protected the chain of custody, and have solid forensic evidence of all the things asserted by the DA, AH should cut the best deal he can get. However, those are some significant "ifs". Perhaps the forensics is more fuzzy then the DA asserts. Perhaps there is a gap in the survelliance that AH says "that's when I left". Perhaps the surveillance photos aren't as clear as the prosecutor says (" that's a book not a gun" ), perhaps perhaps perhaps. It's why we have trials.

Me? I think he is guilty and that the prosecutor wouldn't be making such detailed allegations in this very high profile case unless he could back it up. No prosecutor wants to be accused of "OJ'ing" it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:50 PM   #230
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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If the police have followed the proper procedures, protected the chain of custody, and have solid forensic evidence of all the things asserted by the DA, AH should cut the best deal he can get. However, those are some significant "ifs". Perhaps the forensics is more fuzzy then the DA asserts. Perhaps there is a gap in the survelliance that AH says "that's when I left". Perhaps the surveillance photos aren't as clear as the prosecutor says (" that's a book not a gun" ), perhaps perhaps perhaps. It's why we have trials.

Me? I think he is guilty and that the prosecutor wouldn't be making such detailed allegations in this very high profile case unless he could back it up. No prosecutor wants to be accused of "OJ'ing" it.
I could see that....
AND there is no mention of a glove....so that's good.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:56 PM   #231
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Old 06-26-2013, 10:00 PM   #232
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Go to China. They convict people without allowing them a defense all the time. You'll fit right in.
At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:05 PM   #233
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

Can someone remind me what the 'evidence' was on Ray Lewis back in 00? I forget what they said he did. Did he have like a bloody T-shirt or something?
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:11 PM   #234
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #235
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Can someone remind me what the 'evidence' was on Ray Lewis back in 00? I forget what they said he did. Did he have like a bloody T-shirt or something?
See my post @ 118 and the article I referenced.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:25 PM   #236
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At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?
a jury shouldn't say he is guilty till both sides present their arguments. commenters on a website probably wouldn't wait, but even in your scenario I can think mental health reasons and frames that would end up clearing a mans name to some degree if not entirely.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:31 PM   #237
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Originally Posted by CultBrennan59 View Post
At least in China they don't waste a bunch of tax dollars and time to put and obviously guilty person on a long trial, years from the arrest.

Theres no such thing as a perfect court system. And you're going to have more people in the world that speculate/assume/are fully confident that someone is guilty, especially in a high profile cases like this one.

Its ok to speculate or guess on something like this. This is why we're here, its a discussion board; we discuss things here. I get your argument. I've been getting your argument, I just don't like your take on it, just as much as you don't like my take.

Quick question though for you, If there was evidence that were to come out showing a video tape of Aaron Hernandez coming into his house with a bloody T-shirt and gun and him clearly saying "I can't believe I just killed Odin Lloyd," your saying we shouldn't say he's clearly guilty until hes had his day in court, correct?
In that situation Hernandez would have the opportunity to speak for himself. He will have had the opportunity to provide a defense, which to this point has been completely lacking. Such a defense is important in justice and in humane treatment, except in Cultbrennanland, where no evidence is required and people are guilty only because the all-seeing Cult says they are.

As for the China part, you have not gotten my point at all or you wouldn't say that or the other inhumane things that you have said on the subject. You have no understanding at all of the value of due process or ethical behavior towards an accused.

But, as we've seen again and again, you're not going to let silly things like morals get in the way of your pointless, short-term, superficial titilllation.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:34 PM   #238
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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a jury shouldn't say he is guilty till both sides present their arguments. commenters on a website probably wouldn't wait, but even in your scenario I can think mental health reasons and frames that would end up clearing a mans name to some degree if not entirely.
See and thats one of the many problems with our court system is sane people will pull that card that they are 'insane'. But like I said no court system is perfect. I guess the next step is to see what history of health problems Hernandez has (Bi-polar, Schizophrenic, mentally insane, etc.) to see if he can or will use that excuse.

Another thing I wouldn't be surprised to see is if AH (or whomever in his car) did it in self-defense. Thats the other very common excuse we hear in these kinds of court cases. Although it maybe late to say that if he didn't report that to police immediately.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #239
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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Hmmmmm, let's see....What do a Glock and an Iphone have in common?
BOTH would be of more use inserted in his ear.....
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 PM   #240
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Re: Around the NFL 2013 Offseason (Version 5150)

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In that situation Hernandez would have the opportunity to speak for himself. He will have had the opportunity to provide a defense, which to this point has been completely lacking. Such a defense is important in justice and in humane treatment, except in Cultbrennanland, where no evidence is required and people are guilty only because the all-seeing Cult says they are.

As for the China part, you have not gotten my point at all or you wouldn't say that or the other inhumane things that you have said on the subject. You have no understanding at all of the value of due process or ethical behavior towards an accused.

But, as we've seen again and again, you're not going to let silly things like morals get in the way of your pointless, short-term, superficial titilllation.
First off, I'm almost certain your some super Buddhist thats all free loving and sees only good in all people; that people can do no wrong. (Thats what I've gathered from past arguments with you and from todays arguments)
You also seem like someone who was mad that Bin Laden didn't get a trial either.

And by that scenario/example I had listed, a trial wasn't what I was referring to. Its not something that would occur elsewhere, it can definitely occur here. I'm referring to the arraignment that occurred today where the lawyer is going over evidence and Hernandez is sitting there silent. So I don't need your smart ass remarks about Cult land. Right now, You, are on no more of a pedestal of knowledge than I am on this subject. Your view of 'he needs to speak in court and we need to hear his side of the story' gets washed further and further away with the more and more evidence that comes out.

I think he's guilty, you think the evidence is leaning towards that he's guilty. He's going to get his trial like everyone else has before him. What the hell else do you want to argue about?
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