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Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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Old 08-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #391
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Saw this and reminded me of this discussion. Hopefully, we are done with it very, very soon.

A Crash Course In The Pistol Formation, West Coast Offense, and RG3 as a Passer
Done with what? talking about the formation our team uses or who should be the 3rd string QB?

So with all the negative comments I got for my praise of PW and negativity towards Grossman I thought I'd go look at the stats.

I guess if I was a fan who only looked at the rating % then most of you would be 100% right. Why?

Grossman: 82.3%
White: 35.7%

However I'm one to believe you have to look at the overall stats for the preseason. Not just the rating %.

Grossman: 54.1% passer rating.
White: 57.1% passer rating.

Ok I'll give RG1 a little credit he got 252 yrds passing while PW got only 53 yrds passing. RG1 got a passing TD while it says PW had zero. But I could have sworn he had a passing TD in the first preseason game and a rushing TD. Perhaps the passing TD was called back for something.

Both had a sack RG1's was 6 yrds, PW's was 5 yrds loss.

Both had an INT.

RG1's longest pass 23 yrds. PW's longest pass was 13 yrds.

So I can see how the RG1 camp is getting that he's better or so they think.

Lets now look at Rushing Yards. What... didn't think I would go there? Don't think the QB should be running or scrambling?

Grossman: 1 ATT. for -7 yrds.
White: 9 ATT. for 53 yrds.

Now 53 yrds does not sound like much but PW had 6.3 yrds per attempt rushing. His longest run was 18 yrds. and he rushed for 1 TD.

So to me in the grand scheme of things PW is not much different then RG1 but has mobility. Which this team needs at QB to accomplish its goal. Which is why I prefer PW over RG1 as the 3rd string QB.

Redskins.com | Statistics

Last edited by SBXVII; 08-23-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #392
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

1. Grossman can pass.

2. White can't pass.

3. Run-first quarterbacks can't compete in the NFL.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:25 PM   #393
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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1. Grossman can pass.

2. White can't pass.

3. Run-first quarterbacks can't compete in the NFL.
Ding Ding Ding ... we have a winner.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:34 PM   #394
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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1. Grossman can pass.

2. White can't pass.

3. Run-first quarterbacks can't compete in the NFL.
Yep, I'm proven wrong yet again.... thats why PW has a better passer rating. 57% to 53%.

Hello folks the option rely's on a QB who CAN run so the defense does not key on just the RB and WR. RG1 can not run. Proven by his -7 rushing yrds.

P.S. I'll take my chicken dinner.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #395
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

So we basically all agree that if Pat White or Rex Grossman have to play during the regular season... The redskins are screwed.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:47 PM   #396
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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1. Grossman can pass.

2. White can't pass.

3. Run-first quarterbacks can't compete in the NFL.
What gives anyone the idea Grossman is a better passer? PW had a better passer completion ratio.

Personally I think RG1 knows he is stuck passing or handing the ball off to the RB so obviously he is going to do just those two things.

PW is a triple threat. I think what people are not wanting to realize is PW probably looked down field and saw good coverage so he took off running.

Now if you said no he had a ton of over throws or balls that didn't make it to the WR or dirt balls or INT's then I'd agree with you. But no one has proven that. They just blindly say RG1 is better. The stats don't prove it though.

What we know is RG1 made more passing att. because he can't run. PW made less att. because he CAN run if need be. Why is RG3 so effective? because not only can he pass or hand the ball off he also can run if NEED be.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:51 PM   #397
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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So we basically all agree that if Pat White or Rex Grossman have to play during the regular season... The redskins are screwed.
YES. I'll admit that. But I'd still rather have a 3rd string QB who, god forbid, is put in the game is going to give defenses as much difficulty as possible.

RG1: Pass or Hand off.
PW: Pass, Hand off, or Run.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #398
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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Yep, I'm proven wrong yet again.... thats why PW has a better passer rating. 57% to 53%.

Hello folks the option rely's on a QB who CAN run so the defense does not key on just the RB and WR. RG1 can not run. Proven by his -7 rushing yrds.

P.S. I'll take my chicken dinner.
The quarterback also has to be able to pass or the defense will stack the box and focus exclusively on stopping the run. No threat of passing would destroy our offense. Part of the reason it works so well with RG3 is because defenses are just as scared of his golden arm as they are of his golden legs.

Rex Grossman can pass, but not run. Pat White can run, but not pass. Like I said before, run-first quarterbacks can't compete in the NFL. An offense run by Grossman would operate much better than one run by White. No one wants either Grossman or White to get extensive playing time during the regular season. But if it came to that, I would want definitely want Grossman over White.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:54 PM   #399
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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YES. I'll admit that. But I'd still rather have a 3rd string QB who, god forbid, is put in the game is going to give defenses as much difficulty as possible.

RG1: Pass or Hand off.
PW: Pass, Hand off, or Run.
Grossman: Pass with a decent chance of completing it or hand off.

White: Pass with a small chance of completing it, hand off, or run straight into the defense who's focusing on the run.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:04 PM   #400
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

PW is 0/5 in the regular season FOR HIS CAREER. he's been out of the NFL for 3 years. he can't throw past 15 yards - we've seen what that does to an offense when the entire defense creeps up on you in past years.

and in the preseason, PW was playing against 4th stringers. grossman was playing 1st/2nd teamers, and grossman's int was on a pass he threw to the right spot, but jordan reed ran the wrong route.

context man, context. those stats don't exist in a vacuum. and i don't get why we have to go through this every year with people blowing up guys as MVPs that won't even have a job in two weeks.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:06 PM   #401
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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YES. I'll admit that. But I'd still rather have a 3rd string QB who, god forbid, is put in the game is going to give defenses as much difficulty as possible.

RG1: Pass or Hand off.
PW: Pass, Hand off, or Run. Get a concussion. Retire. Sue the league
Fixed it for you.

Pat White was cut by the Virginia Destroyers. Never heard of the Virginia Destroyers... Exactly. Pat White cant even make a minor league team from a now defunct league. No way will he ever do anything against a first team defense.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:06 PM   #402
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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Done with what? talking about the formation our team uses or who should be the 3rd string QB?
Done asserting that (1) PW is running the same offense as RGIII; and (2) PW is a legitimate option at QB in the NFL (at any roster depth).

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Originally Posted by SBXVII View Post
... So to me in the grand scheme of things PW is not much different then RG1 but has mobility. Which this team needs at QB to accomplish its goal. Which is why I prefer PW over RG1 as the 3rd string QB.
We are clearly watching different players. I watch PW and see a guy who can't get a ball downfield, has a slow delivery, locks onto receivers and has to have the offense tailored to his specific shortcomings as a passer. Because of those shortcomings, PW simply cannot run Shannahan's base offense (but which Rex can run). In that the Pistol and Read/Option are simply expansions off that base, it is PW who cannot run the offense - not RG.

The mere fact that PW ran a college based run-option game does not make him suited for Shanny's system as you seem to continually assert. As the cited article pointed out, the deep passing game is essential to the offense. If you are physically or mentally incapable of running that (as PW is), you do not belong on this team regardless of how mobile you are.

PW has had one good quarter against 3rd and 4th stringers running a one receiver, bootleg game which effectively cuts the field in half and shortens the game to 20 yards. You cannot play in the NFL if that as your "A Game".

You hate RG - I get it. I am certainly not his biggest fan. At the same time, if we ever need a short-term emergency QB during the season, he is probably the best 3rd string QB on any roster (and, yes, I realize what an indictment of 3rd string QB's that is).
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:07 PM   #403
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

Who is even watching Pat White play? My god I am in bed by the time that guy takes the field.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #404
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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...What gives anyone the idea Grossman is a better passer? PW had a better passer completion ratio...
The notion that White, a scrub who has been out of the NFL for 3 years, is a better passer than Grossman, who has started a Super Bowl, is absurd at best.

Preseason stats: Grossman has the edge in every stat but completion percentage. And I won't even go into career stats. Edit: And, like ThatGuy said, context is everything; Grossman was playing against better defenses.

Grossman: 20-37, 54.1%, 252 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt, 2 TDs, 1 INT, long of 23, 1 sack, 82.3 QB raring.

White: 8-14, 57.1%, 53 yards, 3.8 yards per attempt, 0 TDs, 1 INT, long of 13, 1 sack, 35.7 QB rating. Grossman>White!
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:11 PM   #405
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Re: Steelers @ Redskins (Pre season game 2)

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So we basically all agree that if Pat White or Rex Grossman have to play during the regular season... The redskins are screwed.
Yes, even though some people feel that there needs to be a long dragged-out debate about this.
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