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One last thing about Coles...

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Old 03-16-2005, 01:12 PM   #31
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Well lets take a look at the number 2 and 3 WR for Washington, Rod had 51 catchs for 650 yards (much less catches and only 200 yards short) for a average of 12.7 yads a catch plus 5 TD. So if Rod had caught 90 passes he would have had a total of 1141 yards. Thrash not so good but his yards per catch still higher at 11.9. I am not bashing Coles I dont dislike him or anything, like I said he had 2 really good seasons with the skins. I am just saying I am okay with getting moss for coles, the change maybe what we needed on offense. I wish we could have taken less of a cap hit but oh well.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:16 PM   #32
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Thumbs down Re: One last thing about Coles...

does anyone have the authority to please close this thread. If i see the "unmentioned" name again, im going to be sick.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:42 PM   #33
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

I say don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out Coles!!!! I think his toe is and will be the end of him! WE a year or two we will all be happy the Jets tock him off our hands and if Moss comes around like i think he will. That will make all the better!
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:21 PM   #34
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Aww... that's sweet.:vomit-smi
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:24 PM   #35
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
who are we to demonize Coles?
We are the fans who make or break these guys. We are the people who cheered for him. We are the fans who supported his team unfaillingly even through years of losing. That's who...

He is the chump who took shelfishness to another level and created a no win situation for us.
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:28 PM   #36
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

I'm gonna' agree with that. We are the fans who pay for the crazy bonuses with $7 beers at FedEx, so I feel that we have every right to demonize someone when we are feeling their after-effects even when they are long-gone.

(Also, my first original post was not meant to demonize however, it was just for some additional information I didn't think we had posted yet.)
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Old 03-16-2005, 02:33 PM   #37
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

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Originally Posted by Daseal
Bridaman - could his 90 catches with a low YPC have to do with an anemic offensive scheme? I think so! You can only make so many yards on WR screens.

Matty - Sorry I don't jump off liking a guy to hating him in three instants. I think a lot of things happened behind the scenes that we can't see and who are we to demonize Coles?
You don't seem to have a problem with demonizing Gibbs. Every chance you get you take a swipe at the offense. Why does your logic not apply to the offense as well?

I don't hate Coles, but if he doesn't want to be a Redskin and he seems more interested in his personal stats, I find little room to respect him.
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Old 03-16-2005, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

All do respect to Joe, the offense he installed was horrid. Very predictable. But I do find it interesting that Clinton Portis could make play recommendations and Joe Listened. Gary Clarke in his own way requested plays and got Joe's ear in times past. Wonder why LC had such a problem. The bottom line is, LC is damaged goods, physically and mentally. Good riddance. Unfortunately Danny Boy has had a fixation on Moss ever since he was drafted by NY and well the rest is History. Let's move on.
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Old 03-16-2005, 03:53 PM   #39
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

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Originally Posted by Monksdown
Off topic a bit. But lets trade Brunell to the Texans for Charlie Casserly. I see two positives here. We maintain the ongoing goal of making sure that the state of Texas never has a decent football program again. And we get our boy back.
I'd do that trade in an instant.

(wait for it.)

Casserly has a better arm.
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Old 03-16-2005, 04:36 PM   #40
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Coles is gone; the Skins might have handled the siutation a bit more adroitly, but nothing's going to change that now.

Here's are a couple of things I want to know:

How does anyone here know that Coles was unceremoniously ushered out of New York by the Jets? To hear Danny the Great tell it - and to hear Warpath posters revel in it - the Redskins swooped in and took away that horribly valuable asset from the cheapskate Jets' ownership. Why did the Jets take him back? Maybe they really didn't want to lose him in the first place...


How do we know that Joe Gibbs listens to his players and takes input from them about play calls and game plans? Maybe he does; maybe he doesn't; maybe he pretends to listen but ignores whatever players tell him and goes on his merry way. For the record, I'd much prefer to have the coaches worry about the game plan and then take some input from players as the game is progressing as the players report back on things the opposition is doing out there on the field. But I'm not the coach here so my way of doing things just doesn't matter a whole lot...
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:04 PM   #41
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Matty - Coles proved to me he was a good player and a nice guy.

Gibbs while being a nice guy and a good leader has yet to show me anything, in this milenium, that resembles a great offense. Gibbs kept saying during the season he had to make changes, he didn't. He blamed the WR, he had the #2 defense most of the year, you should be able to win games when you have a defense playing like that.

I don't dislike Gibbs at all, and I would rip Spurrier from time to time too. Overall I think he was a great coach with a bad rap and he treated them too loosely at first and was never able to regain control.

When I went to Thanksgiving my... grandmothers brother (whatever that is to me) who has been in DC for his whole life since the Redskins got there, and who used to be a fan, but has since left told me Gibbs was the most overrated coach ever. It was a long time ago and I don't remember the exact facts, but it made since. Winning in strike years with great personel directors throughout his career. I battled him about it the whole time, but he did make good points. I never brought it up because I don't have the facts quickly at my advantage to argue with you guys, so it's really not worth it. I'm just saying he made some very solid points about Gibbs.

While I don't believe that, I don't feel Gibbs has done the job on offense he needs to do. Like every coach he has three years to improve the team, or at least his portion of it, the offense. You guys keep pulling up the past, that's well and good - he was a great coach then, however it's now and he has shown me very little to back thus far. If you guys were basing him on a first year coach I'm sure many more people would be on my side of the fence. I'm not saying can him, but if the offense is anything like last year - time to hire a coordinator.

Gibbs has great qualities as a coach and can lead men - but people need to stop living off his reputation and see if he can still coach. If he can't, then I wouldn't be suprised, but I wouldn't think he wasn't a good coach. He's exactly what I like in terms of a man, if he can get his playcalling up to snuff I'll be happy with him, otherwise he's just another mediocre coach. Does it diminish what he once did? Absolutely not. I think that the game of football has evolved a lot since even the 80's. I think the old Steelers teams would be crushed by some of the play today. Guys are bigger, smarter, faster, and schemes are more advanced. Just my two cents.
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:35 PM   #42
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Coles a nice guy? How do you come to that conclusion?

As for Gibbs I think it's a little premature to write his legacy for his second run. He has one season under his belt after over a decade away from the game. People were writing him off half way through last season, that's just ridiculous. A few years from now I'd like to see where this conversation leads us.

Let's at least give him one more season before we start to question his coaching abilities. 2004 was a season full of adjustments for him, and I think he would be the first to admit that. Let's give the man a chance.

You say he blamed the WR, but you left out the fact he always blames himself first and foremost.

As for Gibbs being the most overrated coach ever, that's laughable but it's one person's opinion.

I don't see how winning during strike years is a negative. You still have to qualify for the playoffs and win in January. If anything it was impressive how he was able to hold the team unified, especially in '87. He even guided a scab team to a 3-0 record and they beat the Cowboys with several players who crossed the line.

Then there was also '91 when they were one of the best overall teams in the history of the league, no strike that year.
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:41 PM   #43
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Matty, first of all I certainly didn't write him off. I've said plenty of times he has three years, which is an acceptable time frame to get everything together. Like every other coach who comes in, 3 years, do you disagree with that. Just assume in three years we're still the bottom 1/4 of offenses in the league, will you still staunchly defend him?

The problem with 2004 was it WASN'T full of adjustments. What adjustments during the year did we make to improve the offense? The answer is nearly none. We'd find something that worked (zone blocking) then abandon it the next week. That's the scary part for me.

Did or didn't Gibbs win in a weakened league thanks to strike, etc? Did he or did he not out personel most other coaches? Not necessarily bad, but still interesting. As I said, it's not my argument to make because I don't have sufficient information to make those claims.

How is Coles a bad guy? You were yelling at me for telling him he needs surgery and all about him three weeks ago, what happened, Matty? He's still the same person, he's shown me nothing bad about his personallity. He asked to be released, players do this all the time, does it make them evil? Why should he help a team that threatened him right before he left, why not get his money from the Jets?
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:49 PM   #44
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Coles a nice guy? How do you come to that conclusion?

As for Gibbs I think it's a little premature to write his legacy for his second run. He has one season under his belt after over a decade away from the game. People were writing him off half way through last season, that's just ridiculous. A few years from now I'd like to see where this conversation leads us.

Let's at least give him one more season before we start to question his coaching abilities. 2004 was a season full of adjustments for him, and I think he would be the first to admit that. Let's give the man a chance.

You say he blamed the WR, but you left out the fact he always blames himself first and foremost.

As for Gibbs being the most overrated coach ever, that's laughable but it's one person's opinion.

I don't see how winning during strike years is a negative. You still have to qualify for the playoffs and win in January. If anything it was impressive how he was able to hold the team unified, especially in '87. He even guided a scab team to a 3-0 record and they beat the Cowboys with several players who crossed the line.

Then there was also '91 when they were one of the best overall teams in the history of the league, no strike that year.
Great points Matty I would also just like to add that he is in the top three in NFL history in winning percentage in the regular season behind only Madden and Lombardi. And second in Playoff winning percentage. If that isnt a good coach then I dont know what is. Finally I would like anyone to leave a job for 12 years and come back to it and see how they fair initially.
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Old 03-16-2005, 07:50 PM   #45
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Re: One last thing about Coles...

As Matty says, Gibbs went 3-0 with a team full of "scab" players and the Skins played a Cowboys team during that team that had many key players cross the line. To say that he won in a weakened league, to me, implies that the Redskins had some sort of advantage over all the other teams.

If it was "weakened" it was weakened across the board, including the Redskins

And 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs and 3 different RBs is pretty impressive, at least I think so.

Daseal, Matty was yelling at you? Really?
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