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Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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View Poll Results: Should the Redskins consider extending Mike Shanahan's contract?
Yes 24 28.92%
No 26 31.33%
Let's see how the rest of the season plays out 33 39.76%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-12-2013, 08:57 PM   #436
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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Yeah but he won those a long time ago with one of the best QB's ever. You think Tom Coughlin and the Giants aren't saying the same thing?

Even though I really don't want to see it, I think Shanahan gets 5 years. To be fair, he should get a offseason with free agency money, and one where RG3 isn't doing rehab.
I hope MS gets 5 years, let him spend some of that $$$.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:37 AM   #437
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Ah chara Warpath!

After years of visiting the site and seeing the fantastic craic thatís had, not to mention the many insightful debates that go on, I finally thought Iíd take the plunge and post myself.

It sucks that the organisation has seen so many changes for change sake over the years, as it perhaps makes the path forward that bit more difficult to see with real clarity which direction is best.

Had Mike been allowed to spend freely in FA the past 2 off-seasons and the team still be performing as it is now, then the decision to cut him loose would likely be a no-brainer. I for one am swaying towards wanting to see how this team would look if a better calibre of player hand picked by Shanny could be had, but then at the same time, I keep asking has he done enough in the almost 4 full seasons to justify being allowed to return and spend that money in 2014?

Then thereís the suggestions that the game has passed him by etc, and that could be accurate to an extent. Itís no coincidence that folk on here, as well as John Keim (amongst others) have highlighted issues with the line (to name one) being overwhelmed by guys who are stronger, but just as quick, which in turn nulifies the kind of personnel Shanny opts for i.e. undersized but athletic guys. Is this a sign then that his famed scheme which worked so effectively for him in Denver during the 90ís is an old school approach and heís unable to adjust?

Maybe. I do know though that last season proved that he (and of course Kyle, but weíll just focus on Snr for now) is still capable of putting together an offense that can go toe to toe with most in the league. Again however, the flip side makes me ask was that simply a combination of momentum and good fortune? I donít believe so personally. I saw too many good things from too many players (even average ones). So where do the issues lie then?

I guess itís normal when there seems to be no answers that thatís when most questions arise.

On a side note, one name I havenít seen on anyoneís lists is Mike Zimmer. Wasnít he considered someone who was sure to get a HC gig at some point not so long ago? Just curious as personally speaking, if the team were to move on from Mike then Iíd like to see a defensive guy take over, albeit with an up and coming young mind as offensive co-ordinator ah-la Phil Montgomery or David Shaw.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:53 AM   #438
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

You bring some very reasonable and salient points to the table SP. Glad you decided to speak your mind on the board. By seasons end hopefully the picture of what we "should" will become clearer, right?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:14 AM   #439
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Cheers Hog1!

I've only been following the team/game since '08 admittedly but through the conversations had here I've gotten a sense of just how disappointing things have been for 'Skins fans for too long.

A team with such a rich history and great fanbase as this deserves better and like yourself and everyone else, I can only hope the positives from last season were the first building block towards achieving something special rather than another "what if".

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Old 11-13-2013, 09:34 AM   #440
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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Cheers Hog1!

I've only been following the team/game since '08 admittedly but through the conversations had here I've gotten a sense of just how disappointing things have been for 'Skins fans for too long.

A team with such a rich history and great fanbase as this deserves better and like yourself and everyone else, I can only hope the positives from last season were the first building block towards achieving something special rather than another "what if".

HTTR!
Welcome! Excellent opening posts. Only a fan since 2008? Well, at least we know your not here for the bandwagon.

By all accounts, MS changed the culture around Redskin Park from the zoo it was under Cerrato. No small accomplishment and something I think too many discount. At the same time, this is a production based business. Regardless of adversity, MS needs to win. If he rips off another win streak, he will get his 5th year (and extension) but, regardless of cap penalties, a third losing record in 4 years should be the end game.

Hopefully, if transition comes, it will not be another descent into chaos.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:56 AM   #441
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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Had Mike been allowed to spend freely in FA the past 2 off-seasons and the team still be performing as it is now, then the decision to cut him loose would likely be a no-brainer. I for one am swaying towards wanting to see how this team would look if a better calibre of player hand picked by Shanny could be had, but then at the same time, I keep asking has he done enough in the almost 4 full seasons to justify being allowed to return and spend that money in 2014?
Welcome to the debate, SP!

I think that what you posted above is pretty much the heart of the matter. How much was the program set back by the $36M cap penalty? I tend to side with you in leaning toward another year for Shanny. I want to find out what he can do by adding a strong FA group and another draft class prior to next season. Honestly, I'm just not emotionally prepared to start over again.

Of course, there are other concerns besides player personnel that I would hope to see addressed in the off-season but upgrading the roster is paramount, IMO.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #442
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Sure to be an unpopular opinion but worth the debate

Mike Shanahan’s contract should be extended to provide stability to Washington Redskins - The Washington Post
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:04 AM   #443
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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Welcome! Excellent opening posts. Only a fan since 2008? Well, at least we know your not here for the bandwagon.

By all accounts, MS changed the culture around Redskin Park from the zoo it was under Cerrato. No small accomplishment and something I think too many discount. At the same time, this is a production based business. Regardless of adversity, MS needs to win. If he rips off another win streak, he will get his 5th year (and extension) but, regardless of cap penalties, a third losing record in 4 years should be the end game.

Hopefully, if transition comes, it will not be another descent into chaos.
Yup, still very much a newbie admittedly lol. The games popularity on these shores has only really gathered momentum from around 2010 but even Iím amazed by how much itís taken off what with the coverage on a host of channels and of course the Wembley games. If I could liken it to anything itíd be the scene in Fight Club when Ed Norton starts realising the subtle signs that more and more colleagues etc are ďinvolvedĒ lol.

I actually remember December í09 returning from a work lunch and the news had just broke that Vinny was done! Again, Iíd relied on so much background on the team from this site and it was evident just how jubilant everyone was that Snyder had finally acknowledged what a big part of the problem was and made efforts to eliminate it. At that time Mike coming on board was the worst kept secret and I absolutely credit the man for the changes he has made. Iíd also like to see him finish the job but as you say, heís not giving himself much of a chance right now and each passing game becomes even more significant as to what is going to happen next season as much as this.

I do believe if there are wholesale changes on the horizon though, that enough of a stable foundation has been laid by Mike. In particular his bringing predominately positive locker room characters in, which would hopefully ensure the environment is a more manageable one for the next guy if thatís the case.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:04 AM   #444
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:06 AM   #445
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

^ I believe he should be. People forget how bad things were when he took over and about the cap penalty. He's put some great young talent in place with the limited draft picks Vinny left us and managed to get us the first franchise QB we've had since Joe Theismann.

Haslett's 3-4 conversion has been a disaster, so we definitely need to reset that side of the ball, but Shanahan has done a fantastic job in my opinion. Kyle's playcalling has been suspect too, so we can do without him if we need to make changes, but Mike should stay and get the opportunity to finish what he has started. I'd be fine with him taking back playcalling from his son too.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:16 AM   #446
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Great feeback guys!

Just curious to what you think, but if Mike accepts he picked the wrong guy to run the D, will he be so willing to accept he made the same mistake on the other side of the ball and move on from both Haslett and Kyle in the same off-season?

Again, curiosity based as much on the obvious family ties to the latter as anything.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:17 AM   #447
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Welcome Starry Plough! I'm in the category of keeping Mike Shanahan for at least his last season. My thoughts seem to be that Mike is "hands off" when it comes to the defense. I'm sure he has some input into bringing defensive personnel to the team, but I tend to believe that he relies heavily on Jim Haslett to take care of that side of the ball. I might be completely wrong on that, but it seems that way considering how much more improved the offense is compared to the defense.

When Joe Gibbs was coaching in his second tenure, the main complaint amongst many Redskins fans here was that his offense was anemic. The defense was always a top 10 defense [Gregg Williams being the DC] that kept the Redskins in every game they played, but the offense was unspectacular. We even had fans saying they'd rather see the Redskins lose but put up 30+ points and be entertained than what they were seeing out of Joe Gibbs' teams.

With that said, we ['skins fans] have gotten what we have asked for. An offense that can move the ball easily and put up points, an offense that entertains us and is spectacular, but a team that still finds ways to lose games. I would probably ask those 'skins fans who were the loudest boo birds during the Gibbs' era, how entertained are you now?

Where I think Mike's downfall lies is that he expects the defensive coordinator to be in full control; to bring in the guys on defense he wants, to bring in the defensive philosophy that he feels works best, and to have the defense playing top ten football. That hasn't happened. So, do we blame Mike Shanahan for the defense, or do we blame the front office for supplying Mike with Jim Haslett? I guess that is the real question. If it was the front office telling Mike that Jim is the best option, roll with Haslett and see what he can do for you, then I find it difficult to blame Shanahan for Haslett's inability to improve the defense.

That's why I feel the 'skins keep Mike Shanahan with the caveat that Jim Haslett is jettisoned by the end of the season in favor of a better defensive coordinator, or that if the 'skins keep Jim Haslett on, Mike Shanahan becomes more involved on the defensive side of the ball, because obviously Haslett needs help.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:32 AM   #448
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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I agree with SP about MS being held back the the cap penalty. This organization was so broken and lacking in talent from years of mismanagement that MS really needed that extra cap $ to get this team the talent it sorely needs. IMO, that penalty set MS back at least 2 years. Personally I hope they let MS finish out his contract and see where this organization is talent-wise and then make a decision about what to do with the HC and staff.
I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!!
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:43 AM   #449
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

Ok, Iíve been convinced. Shanny stays lol!

Cheers again to all for the kind welcomes btw.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:50 AM   #450
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Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?

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I whole heartedly agree on your assessment of the MS era.

Year 1 he had to bring in some talent, and made a mistake with McFlabb.

Year 2 he had to contend with no FA and the lockout and build a team in a week.

Year 3 he finally got the QB, and made a mistake with Fletch and Morgan's contracts all while getting hit with a 18 Mil dollar Cap penalty. The team caught fire and won the NFC E.

Year 4 he is still dealing with the second 18 Mil cap penalty and could only get the same team from year 3 with a couple of decent draft picks as well. He could have fired Has at that point but continuity was a big buzz word so he stood pat with what he already had in place.

SO to say he really got a fair shot at a 5 year building plan isn't even close to accurate. He has changed the culture in DC but has been unable to get all the pieces in place to build a contending team.

I say give the guy at least his last year of his contract, and even sign him to a 2 year extension to see what he can really do given a level playing field with the rest of the NFL.

BUT Haslett and the failed 3-4 have to go and a new DC needs to come in to fix the defense. If this team had any sort of defense this year we would be able to contend for the east and while we are not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs yet it is a much harder boat to row this year. IF by some chance they are able to pull themselves up from the cellar and win this division it will be an amazing feat for a team with as many problems we have on all 3 sides of the ball.

WELCOME Brother from across the big pond SP!!!
Well said, and all those factor add up, even though it seems like there are people who discount all or some of it. I don't know about an extension, but it sure seems like MS ought to get to finish his contract.
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