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The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

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Old 03-24-2005, 10:31 AM   #1
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The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

I was curious how much improvement the offense showed when we made the switch to Ramsey and here's the numbers I came up with.

Keep in mind I took the numbers from games they started, there's a few that overlap since Ramsey relieved Brunell a few times, and I'm not going to go through every single play to be 100% accurate but if someone wants to take on that nightmare feel free.

Brunell:
9 starts, offense averaged 272.1 yards per game, 13.1 points per game.

Ramsey:
7 starts, offense averaged 278.3 yards per game, 16.4 points per game.

Modest improvements, so I looked a bit further.

3rd down conversion rates under both QBs:

Brunell: 28.5%
Ramsey: 36%

So as you can see the offense definitely showed improvement across the board with the most dramatic and perhaps the most critical change coming in 3rd down percentage.

Just something to think about and some optimism for next year for the offense under Patrick!
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:37 AM   #2
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Great idea Matty, and it looks like a small improvement, but hey even the Ravens won with so-so QB paly.

I suppose the best way to break this down would be to due time of posetion, from each game and figure out minute by minute how they compare.

Also I think Ramsey was more consistant, where Brunell was streaky, for example the first Dallas game in the fourth quarter.

Anyone have some extra time on their hands to figure all of this out?
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:39 AM   #3
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Or how about this, I took the same averages for the final 5 games for Ramsey.

The offense averaged 315.8 yards per game and 20.4 points per game.

3-2 record.

That's perhaps a more fair look at him, since his first two starts came against Philly and Pittsburgh and he was clearly a little shakey and wasn't 100% comfortable in the offense at that point.
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:56 AM   #4
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew54
Great idea Matty, and it looks like a small improvement, but hey even the Ravens won with so-so QB paly.

I suppose the best way to break this down would be to due time of posetion, from each game and figure out minute by minute how they compare.

Also I think Ramsey was more consistant, where Brunell was streaky, for example the first Dallas game in the fourth quarter.

Anyone have some extra time on their hands to figure all of this out?
hello drew, could you spell posetiion for me again?
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:01 AM   #5
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Or how about this, I took the same averages for the final 5 games for Ramsey.

The offense averaged 315.8 yards per game and 20.4 points per game.

3-2 record.

That's perhaps a more fair look at him, since his first two starts came against Philly and Pittsburgh and he was clearly a little shakey and wasn't 100% comfortable in the offense at that point.
great points.........I've said over and over if Ramsey starts the season we are in the playoffs last year. The worst thing that happen to Ramsey was being thrown into the first Giants game. He was trying to make plays and bring the team back and made to many mistake trying to do to much. I think that game may have given Joe gibbs a bad feeling about Ramsey.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:17 AM   #6
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

The improvement on 3rd downs is the most remarkable. The points and passing are a little misleading as there are reasons beyond talent and production that make those numbers appear more similar than they really are. Consider that Brunell did have the services of John Hall for most of his run and Ramsey did not. That probably directly skews points a couple in each direction. Plus by the time Ramsey stepped in our defense was is stalwart mode and we were simply trying not to lose games on offense. Through Brunell's first few games I doubt our offense was planned to be as bland as it was. Brunell's suckiness just made us go bland. I think it is reasonable to assume we may have performed somewhat less conservatively through the first two or three games. Ramsey also missed Portis one game. All in all Brunell had every opportunity to suceed and royally crapped the bed while Ramsey was brought in to a watered down offense minus a #1 kicker and Portis for a game.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:29 AM   #7
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Good points, FRPLG...
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:30 AM   #8
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Calculate Ramseys stats for six games, all of them except the Giants game. Im sure they will definitly drop. That was the one game that we acutally opened things up and Gibbs made us think that things were going to change. But as we saw a week later it was a one time gameplan for Gibbs on the year.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:41 AM   #9
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

I think the real issue with Ramsey is that he's young and will continue to get better. Not only is he better NOW, but he can also improve. With Brunell he is going nowhere but down...I like the fact that we are going to concentrate on starting a QB who can grow with the franchise.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:43 AM   #10
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES
Calculate Ramseys stats for six games, all of them except the Giants game. Im sure they will definitly drop. That was the one game that we acutally opened things up and Gibbs made us think that things were going to change. But as we saw a week later it was a one time gameplan for Gibbs on the year.
Things really didn't open up that game, the running game accounted for 211 yards, Portis had 31 carries for 148 yards, Betts 11 for 64. Ramsey only attempted 22 passes, but hit on 19.

The running game set everything up.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:45 AM   #11
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Did anyone factor in the red socks?
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:45 AM   #12
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

I'm shocked the numbers are so different, didn't seem so when Ramsey came in! Either way, I'm going to have an annurism if I see Brunell playing anything but pre-season or because of an injury.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:46 AM   #13
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinRat
Did anyone factor in the red socks?
There's a very complicated equation to take the red socks into account, not sure if my calculator can handle it.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:50 AM   #14
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm still not entirely convinced that we could just say if Ramsey had started day one we'd be in the playoffs.

I think that, as painful as it was to see Brunell struggle like that, it was necessary in order to allow all the surrounding pieces to get comfortable with Gibbs' playcalling (motions, etc.) while the staff worked on Ramsey in practice until he was ready to come in.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:58 AM   #15
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Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey

Nice point TAFKAS - as bad as Brunell was, every player on that offense went through an accelerated learning curve with this system. I'm by no means a Brunell apologist, but we were taking a lot of penalties early on that the entire offense has to be accountable for. By the time Ramsey was the entrenched starter, the consecutive delay of game penalties had been eliminated.
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