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Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Old 12-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #571
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

If the problem is Griffins attitude, firing the Shanahans and replacing him with a less accomplished head coach and offensive staff isnt going to do a damn thing to help him be a better quarterback.

Id trade Griffin for a top 10 pick if i could get it and feel like i got a steal. I know we invested alot in him, but right now he does not have the skillset, desire, or attitude to show he's worth that investment. On the flipside, Cousins, while having less athletic ability, appears light years ahead of Griffin in mechanics, decision making, coachability, and leadership. Sometimes its best to cut your losses and move on.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #572
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat View Post
If the problem is Griffins attitude, firing the Shanahans and replacing him with a less accomplished head coach and offensive staff isnt going to do a damn thing to help him be a better quarterback.

Id trade Griffin for a top 10 pick if i could get it and feel like i got a steal. I know we invested alot in him, but right now he does not have the skillset, desire, or attitude to show he's worth that investment. On the flipside, Cousins, while having less athletic ability, appears light years ahead of Griffin in mechanics, decision making, coachability, and leadership. Sometimes its best to cut your losses and move on.
You would trade a potential franchise QB because he had one bad year, after having the best year a QB has had in Washington in what feels like decades... Because you feel comfortable having a QB that at his very best will probably be Andy dalton...

Not to mention the coaching staff at Washington had proven to be one of the worst coaching staffs in the NFL, if not the worst staff... Im failing to see how getting another coaching staff will be anything but an upgrade.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:23 PM   #573
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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I know we invested alot in him, but right now he does not have the skillset, desire, or attitude to show he's worth that investment.
Really? How are you coming to this conclusion?
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #574
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Neither should be traded until after the 2014 season. Griff should get his full off season and go into the off season as the starter. However, if he's outperformed in these mini camps, OTA's and training camp by Cousins then he shouldn't go into next season as the starter. If it's vice versa then Griff should start. The best guy should play. End of discussion. I'm sure everyone is tired of losing, so play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I think whoever coaches the team will feel the same way.
I agree there is no way we should trade away KC at this point. Like you, I say list RG as the starter and let KC push him to keep the job.

Last edited by firstdown; 12-17-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:36 PM   #575
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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I know we invested alot in him, but right now he does not have the skillset, desire, or attitude to show he's worth that investment.
How do you know any of this? What has been demonstrated - sans all this pejorative speculation, innuendo and ASSumption in the media that's stemming from Robert being very closed-mouth about all of this (so they have to make up a lot of bologna) - from which you could reasonably draw this conclusion?

Please be specific and show your work.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #576
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Really? How are you coming to this conclusion?
I don't think it's true as I think the guy busts his ass. But like the bleacher report article talked about, there are rumors circulating that, long story short, it seems like he can't take criticism and constructive help too well.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:02 PM   #577
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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So here is a question. What we've seen from Robert in a normal pro-style offense has been from mediocre to downright bad.


Providing a new coach comes in, how long are you willing to give him before competition comes into play? This isn't going to be his rookie year, this will be going on his 3rd year. So how long are you willing to invest time into him before you say enough? What if we start out the season pretty much like we did this past?



That said, do you really want to trade Kirk? Why not keep him around until after year 3 so if Griff doesn't click next year, we have a possible solution at the QB spot.
Gruden was talking about Luck, Wilson, Robert and Colin two Mondays ago on MNF and I think he was right: he said Luck and Wilson are great QBs who are getting better, while Colin and Robert are great athletes trying to become great quarterbacks.

In hindsight, I think Robert probably should have been on IR at the start of the season and not brought back until after the BYE (and I put the blame for that not being done squarely on Shanahan's shoulders), but what's done is done and we have to move on. It was insane for Robert, but ESPECIALLY Shanahan 'cause he should KNOW better, to think he could just come back into the NFL with zero playing time without any issues.

That said, no one here or in the media has demonstrated anything concrete to make me believe Robert is not willing to put in the effort and time to become better. All we have is innuendo, character assassination and the dispirited BS that's come from him and the team having such an awful season, full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.

You give Robert his offseason. You give Robert time to learn and grow. You give him time to work on his mechanics and his rapport with his receivers and his pocket presence and all the things he didn't get to work on for the last two years. You keep Captain Kirk because it's a rare thing to have a solid backup QB. You fix the line and the secondary and get a gotdamn new inside linebacker (because I'm sick and tired of seeing the back of Fletcher's jersey) since we'll finally have the money free to do so. You let him play the full preseason.

And then you start Robert in 2014. You give it eight games. And if there isn't measurable improvement, you pull the trigger and start Captain Kirk and go from there. You don't trade EITHER until after the 2014 season.

But you don't damn him for the chutzpah all great athletes have and throw him under a figurative bus because he's had a bad season following a major knee injury where he spent the entire offseason just trying to be able to play at all. Not after he broke his body for the Washington Redskins. Not after he set NFL records and won RotY his first season. Not after we spent a fortune to get him. You wait and see and you give him his fair chance to get better.

And not for nothing - the same thing happened to him at Baylor the year after he hurt himself. He had a terrible 2010 season following his knee injury. And then the next year ... well, he was the eventual Heisman winner.

Last edited by ashvirtually; 12-17-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:19 PM   #578
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Originally Posted by donofriose View Post
You would trade a potential franchise QB because he had one bad year, after having the best year a QB has had in Washington in what feels like decades... Because you feel comfortable having a QB that at his very best will probably be Andy dalton...

Not to mention the coaching staff at Washington had proven to be one of the worst coaching staffs in the NFL, if not the worst staff... Im failing to see how getting another coaching staff will be anything but an upgrade.
I don't get the Andy Dalton comparison. Cousins has already shown he throws a better deep ball than Dalton. He also seems to be more mobile.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:24 PM   #579
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

There is a world of difference between KNOWING and BELIEVING. No, more than a world ... there's a couple billion lightyears between the two.

We have what we KNOW about Robert, and then we have all these unverified accounts and explanations about Robert (i.e., rumors).

How much veracity one wishes to attach to the latter is up to the individual (and likely to be colored by how much one wishes to BELIEVE rather than KNOW), but I prefer to put my money down on verifiable facts not assumptions and innuendo.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #580
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
So here is a question. What we've seen from Robert in a normal pro-style offense has been from mediocre to downright bad.


Providing a new coach comes in, how long are you willing to give him before competition comes into play? This isn't going to be his rookie year, this will be going on his 3rd year. So how long are you willing to invest time into him before you say enough? What if we start out the season pretty much like we did this past?



That said, do you really want to trade Kirk? Why not keep him around until after year 3 so if Griff doesn't click next year, we have a possible solution at the QB spot.
I don't mean to crap all over the question, because it's a really strong discussion point. But the question isn't relevant. Griffin doesn't need more time. He needs superiors who know what they are doing and have the best interests of the franchise in mind.

The answer to your question is a practical one. Mike Shanahan is going to take the fall for the failure of this team. He deserves it of course, but even if he didn't he's taking the fall. He's been here the longest, he's done the least to help, and he can't come back. Griffin gets (and deserves) a total pass.

Thing is, Griffin knows how this game works: after the guy who brought you in gets fired, you're the next one to get held responsible. So the organization has to turn around now, or Griffin can't continue to be the quarterback. He's going to get the length of the next coaches' tenure to win here. In three years, if the Redskins look up and haven't won yet, they'll change the QB and the coach.

That's how the game is played.

Thing is, five years probably isn't enough time to fully develop a quarterback from scratch. Brady was in what, year 8 (2007), when Belichick took the training wheels off for good. Peyton Manning was in year...7 (2004)? Eli was in year 8 (2011). Brees was on his second organization. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco have gotten the training wheels taken off and...well...you can see that the structure they had before may have been beneficial for them.

You don't need to stick with a QB who isn't progressing and Griffin is no exception. So if he's worse next year than this year, there's no reason to beat ones head against the wall any longer. But he's going to look somewhat better in a more QB friendly system, and he's a ways away from his peak NFL seasons.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #581
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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I don't get the Andy Dalton comparison. Cousins has already shown he throws a better deep ball than Dalton. He also seems to be more mobile.
He's more like Grossman than Dalton, IMO.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #582
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

First of all, I think any talk of getting rid of Robert is ridiculous. Secondly, let's put things in perspective, shall we? Let's go back to 1993 and compare the number of starting quarterbacks of the Washington Redskins to the number of starting quarterbacks for the New England Patriots:

New England Patriots from 1993 to present:

Drew Bledsoe, Scott Secules, Scott Zolak, Tom Brady, Matt Cassel.

Washington Redskins from 1993 to present:

Mark Rypien, Cary Conklin, John friez, Rich Gannon, Heath Shuler, Gus Frerotte, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Tony Banks, Danny Weurefel (ms), Shane Matthew, Patrick Ramsey, Mark Brunell, Jason Campbell, Todd Collins, Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, John Beck, Robert Griffin III, Kirk Cousins.

Let's take away the QBs who came in solely because the starter was out with an injury - the Patriots have two starting quarterbacks in a 20 year span. The Redskins would still have well over 15 different starters in a 20 year span. Let that sink in. Robert Griffin III had, clearly, the best year of any Redskins quarterback since 1991 last season. Yes, he regressed this season. But after two seasons, one absolutely great season, the other a mediocre season at best, you're wanting to pick him apart? I don't understand this line of thinking.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #583
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

Any talk of trading Robert is crazy talk.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #584
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

For clarification, all my thoughts are based on the preceding quotes from the bleacherreport link which painted rg3 as a spoiled brat/cry baby who won't listen to his coaches. Hence, the first word in my post was "if." If rg is that much of a diva, I don't want him on my team. If those reports aren't true, and he's a high character guy who tries to build good relationships with his coaches and team mates and readily accepts all coaching given him, then I'm happy he's here.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #585
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Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

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I don't mean to crap all over the question, because it's a really strong discussion point. But the question isn't relevant. Griffin doesn't need more time. He needs superiors who know what they are doing and have the best interests of the franchise in mind.

The answer to your question is a practical one. Mike Shanahan is going to take the fall for the failure of this team. He deserves it of course, but even if he didn't he's taking the fall. He's been here the longest, he's done the least to help, and he can't come back. Griffin gets (and deserves) a total pass.

Thing is, Griffin knows how this game works: after the guy who brought you in gets fired, you're the next one to get held responsible. So the organization has to turn around now, or Griffin can't continue to be the quarterback. He's going to get the length of the next coaches' tenure to win here. In three years, if the Redskins look up and haven't won yet, they'll change the QB and the coach.

That's how the game is played.

Thing is, five years probably isn't enough time to fully develop a quarterback from scratch. Brady was in what, year 8 (2007), when Belichick took the training wheels off for good. Peyton Manning was in year...7 (2004)? Eli was in year 8 (2011). Brees was on his second organization. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco have gotten the training wheels taken off and...well...you can see that the structure they had before may have been beneficial for them.

You don't need to stick with a QB who isn't progressing and Griffin is no exception. So if he's worse next year than this year, there's no reason to beat ones head against the wall any longer. But he's going to look somewhat better in a more QB friendly system, and he's a ways away from his peak NFL seasons.
Could not be more wrong here. Brady and Manning were running pro offenses in their first full years under center and passing the ball, as was Andrew Luck. There were no "training wheels" as you put it. Wilson, Griff, Locker, EJ Manuel, Ponder?? I think those guys needed to start out with conservative type offenses.
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