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Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Old 12-19-2013, 05:04 PM   #31
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Why is Orakpo not worth franchise player money? He's a double digit sack guy, how easy do we think it is to find those guys?

He got hurt a couple times but I can't see holding that against him, there's no evidence those weren't freak things that could have just as easily happened to anybody.
He is not a top 5 sack guy.
I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Robert Mathis, Mario Williams or the Kid in STL.
He just doesn't beat the elite left tackles in the league.
Dallas has a solid LT and I will be surprised if RAK can do anything against him.

It's all about money not just about who we want to keep.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #32
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Keep in mind, good pass rushers NEVER hit the open market. You're talking about having to use a high first rounder to find another one.
I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:00 PM   #33
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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John Keim posted about the 15 unrestricted free agents the Redskins have and if this is their last game as a Redskin at Fed Ex Field. Simple question, if you were the GM would you tell them to pack or want to bring them back?

My opinion:
BACK-
Brian Orakpo- Homegrown talent at a position of need that will be too expensive to replace in either draft capital or in free agency.

Fred Davis- Especially with a new coach, clean slate. He's got a ton of flaws but I think the right coach can find a way to make him productive again and Reed/Davis can be a devastating combo. Likely will be a one year deal again.

Perry Riley- See reasons for Orakpo.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth and occasional playmaker. This is the type of player in the Snyder era who has gotten away and flourished elsewhere.

E.J. Biggers- Young, fast, provides depth as well and shouldn't cost too much.

PACK
Darryl Tapp, Rex Grossman, Nick Barnett-No individual comments needed, provided little or nothing on the field and won't be missed.

Santana Moss, Reed Doughty-Carryovers from the Gibbs years. Thanks for the service but their production can easily be met or surpassed by younger and cheaper players.

Josh Morgan- He enters the 'Deion Sanders' category of someone who should show up at Redskins Park with a ski mask on whenever he picks up his paycheck.

Josh Wilson & Deangelo Hall- It's time to move on from this duo. I don't know if Wilson would even be in the NFL this year if it wasn't for us. Hall played well all year but this seems like 2012 London Fletcher. We're seeing the last flickers of talent but shouldn't be fooled into thinking it's about to be a real fire again.

Rob Jackson- Really could go either way on him. He's a playmaker when given the chance but not talented or consistent enough to be a starter. Also, one stupid or careless move from a one year drug suspension so he can be replaced but it wouldn't be the worst move if he's retained.


Depends who you can get to replace these guys. Between the draft and free agency, the Skins should be able to find 6-8 new starters. As long as we get exceptional play from the QB position, that will be more than enough to contend for the division and a deep run in the playoffs.

The NFL is random and unpredictable, but the one thing that can compensate for flaws (and every team has them) is great QB play. This team's success next year depends almost entirely on the play of one Robert Griffin III.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:10 PM   #34
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money.
Where was Richard Sherman drafted? And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played?

Shut down corners are like elite wide receivers. Everyone bitches and whines that we don't have one, but teams go to and win the Super Bowl every year without either. They're nice to haves, but hardly necessary.

Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:48 PM   #35
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Where was Richard Sherman drafted? And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played?

Shut down corners are like elite wide receivers. Everyone bitches and whines that we don't have one, but teams go to and win the Super Bowl every year without either. They're nice to haves, but hardly necessary.

Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings
People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:21 AM   #36
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.
For far too long the Skins have overlooked or postponed to acknowledge that games and seasons depend how well guys in the trenches are.

We need to get back on track to build an ol/dl but it is not done in 1 offseason.

LeRibeus, sounds and plays like Augustus Gluths fatter cousin
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:20 PM   #37
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings
Your ring argument is ridiculous. Are you going to say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino too?

If you want a ring comparison, Look at what Deion did for SF and Dallas. If he stays in SF, Dallas never gets past them and they get a couple more rings.
Don't tell me being able to single Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin is not a big deal.

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Where was Richard Sherman drafted?
I don't know where he was drafted but he is having an all pro year on the #1 defense. I bet you can name more of seattles DB than dlinemen.


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And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played?
I do agree that you need a complete team to win but I think Cornerback is one of the hardest positions to draft and only 2 maybe 3 guys in the game right now could be considered shutdown corners. You have to make due without them because there just aren't many to go around.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:28 PM   #38
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.
I couldn't agree more. We need a major overhaul on Oline and some quality on Dline.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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He is not a top 5 sack guy.
I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Robert Mathis, Mario Williams or the Kid in STL.
He just doesn't beat the elite left tackles in the league.
Dallas has a solid LT and I will be surprised if RAK can do anything against him.

It's all about money not just about who we want to keep.
Orakpo's not a top-5 pass rusher in stats, but that's because he doesn't rush the quarterback every down. He's a complete linebacker, not just a pass rushing specialist. If he would rush the quarterback as much as the other elite pass rushers, he would be their equal in stats. So if he wants to be paid like Robert Mathis, then we need to pay him like that.

And, for whatever it's worth, Haslett says Orakpo is an elite pass rusher...

Need to Know: Haslett makes case for ‘elite’ Orakpo | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #40
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money.
He would be shooting for the stars in that case, he's not coming anywhere near a $100M deal. It's more reasonable to look at what the other 3-4 OLBs in the league make and go from there.

He's definitely going to be looking for a deal that tops Krugers from last year. Kruger got 5 yrs $40M last year with $20 guaranteed. I don't think anyone could argue he's not a better player than Kruger. So how much more does he get? I'd guess somewhere between Kruger's deal and Tamba Hali's (5 yrs $60M with $35M guaranteed).

Out of the top sack guys this year, only 3 OLBs have more than Orakpo.
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:38 PM   #41
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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Originally Posted by jamf View Post
Your ring argument is ridiculous. Are you going to say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino too?

If you want a ring comparison, Look at what Deion did for SF and Dallas. If he stays in SF, Dallas never gets past them and they get a couple more rings.
Don't tell me being able to single Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin is not a big deal.


I don't know where he was drafted but he is having an all pro year on the #1 defense. I bet you can name more of seattles DB than dlinemen.



I do agree that you need a complete team to win but I think Cornerback is one of the hardest positions to draft and only 2 maybe 3 guys in the game right now could be considered shutdown corners. You have to make due without them because there just aren't many to go around.

Sherman was a 5th rounder. What he was saying is that you do not have to have Deion Sander to have a dominant defense. Hell you don't even have to have an elite player. As long as you have 11 guys out there doing their jobs and playing together, you will be at worst fine.
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:48 PM   #42
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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He would be shooting for the stars in that case, he's not coming anywhere near a $100M deal. It's more reasonable to look at what the other 3-4 OLBs in the league make and go from there.

He's definitely going to be looking for a deal that tops Krugers from last year. Kruger got 5 yrs $40M last year with $20 guaranteed. I don't think anyone could argue he's not a better player than Kruger. So how much more does he get? I'd guess somewhere between Kruger's deal and Tamba Hali's (5 yrs $60M with $35M guaranteed).

Out of the top sack guys this year, only 3 OLBs have more than Orakpo.
And I don't think that 5 years at 50-60 million is out of his range at all.
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:49 PM   #43
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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And I don't think that 5 years at 50-60 million is out of his range at all.
Definitely not
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:02 AM   #44
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.
I've said for years that consistent winners build from the inside/out, putting together linemen that win the line of scrimmage. We have neglected the O-line for years with the exception of drafting Trent #4 overall.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #45
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Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

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I've said for years that consistent winners build from the inside/out, putting together linemen that win the line of scrimmage. We have neglected the O-line for years with the exception of drafting Trent #4 overall.
I couldn't agree with you more. Two words: The Hogs.
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