Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back

delusional optimist · 01-06-2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I'm understanding the delusional part of your screen name now...

Which part is delusional? The idea that these guys will be back or the idea that guys not on the list won't?....Or was that just a clever barb that you put little thought into?

Nah i get it. Thats what these forums are for. To be clear though let me explain my position. As a long time Skins fan i have watched us hang on to guys who were just good enough to hold on to a roster spot and keep us from searching for upgrades for far to long.

Here is and example. You have Ladell Betts. He's an OK backup to Portis so you kinda take RB off the shopping list so to speak.Then you go into the draft and select Devin Thomas and Malcomb Kelly (both currently out of the NFL) over Jammal Charles who is one of the top RBs in the NFL.

Example 2- Kedric Golston has been hanging around this team for at least 4 yrs to long. He doesn't break the bank but he does cost more than say a rookie FA...but does he produce more than what you may be able to get from a RFA. We have seen his upside and know it has come and gone but who knows what kind of upside comes with a young guy.

Point being there is no point in keeping guys around that have proven they are just good enough to maintain a spot on a team that loses. If you are not helping the team win what are you doing ? It would have been nice if we would have been developing a young DE over the past 3 yrs that might be something by now as apposed to dragging around Golston for 3.

DynamiteRave · 01-06-2014, 05:51 PM

Because you've let too many guys go. You can't expect to fill 20+ spots in the draft and FA alone.

For example: You've cleaned house on the safety position, when you absolutely need to hold onto Thomas and Rambo, as you JUST drafted these guys and they need development time. You need to hold onto Doughty because he's proven to be a solid backup in case no one else sticks. From there you can draft or bring in FAs and let people duke out starting roles.

You've also cleaned house in the CB position, when you should considering signing Hall back who had a great year, hold onto Amerson, Crawford maaaybe Minnifield and potentially Gumbs who showed some potential towards the end of the year. Then start signing and drafting.

And crazily enough at TE position, you've let everyone go but Reed who has had a lingering concussion issue since college.

To me you're edging awfully close to the Cerrato method; blow up everything, keep almost no one and sign as many people as possible.

NC_Skins · 01-06-2014, 05:59 PM

DR is right. You can't just give half the team a pink slip even if they need it. You aren't going to be able to fill that many slots in the draft/FA. It's a process that takes time. Even when Shanny got here, he slowly changed to roster over drastically from what it was we he inherited it. Only a couple remained from the prior regime.

I expect the same thing will happen this time around. He'll use some of these guys as stop gaps till he can replace them.

DCtoAZ · 01-06-2014, 06:47 PM

This shouldn't be that difficult people ...

BACK-

Orakpo-it's funny how everyone is down on this guy, he had a couple years battling injuries. When he's healthy as in this year the guy is a solid piece of building the defense back up. Kerrigan and Orakpo on the edges is a good thing period end of story.

Perry Riley-Shows flashes of greatness and I like em especially being tutoring under Fletch. I think this guy can shine and shouldn't cost too much.

Chris Baker aka Big Swaggy - This dude gives 110% every play even in giants finale .. that means something to me and i'm sure it does to people that will be making these decisions. And he can't cost too much .. solid

EJ Biggers - Depth only

Reed Doughty - YES he needs to be back, granted he's no pro bowl safety but he's a leader and a solid special teams guy ... not to mention he always comes to play ... these are the types of guys we need to stay put

D-Hall ... again another guy people dog way to much .. he's shutdown major WR's even with the worst defense in the league he's literally a bright spot .. lay off D-Hall .. he's grown up and deserves to be here to fix this thing

Now for the don't the let the door hit ya team -

Fred Davis -- get the F outta here .. i can't believe some people want to bring back this cancer .. see ya later freddie

D. Tapp ... if he was solid he would have seen the field .. rest my case

R. Jackson ... also seems like he will be solid then doesn't .. never lives up to hype IMO

Sex Grossman .. sorry bra .. it's been real

Santana Moss ... Dude should have his name on Skins' ring of fame ... he WAS one hell of a redskins and to be honest if he came back for dirt cheap i wouldn't mind having him around for one more year .. i'm kinda on fence cause i love this dude so much .. but he's getting up there in age and it finally started to show ... tough call but we have to start improving

Josh Morgan ... still pissed about that Rams game where he threw the ball and got the 15 yd pen back in 2012 ... later dude

Josh Wilson ... yeah he reps the DMV hard .. and I like the guy .. but he gets burned so much its' painful .. later

Nick Barnett .. again never saw playing time ? has to be a reason

JD Walton .. um who the F are you .. later dude i never knew

DynamiteRave · 01-06-2014, 07:01 PM

I think Moss needs to retire, he'd never start for any team at this rate and I think we do need to make room for younger talent.

Barnett I think we might hold onto for depth purposes only. We definitely need to be on the lookout for a starter.

delusional optimist · 01-06-2014, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Because you've let too many guys go. You can't expect to fill 20+ spots in the draft and FA alone.

For example: You've cleaned house on the safety position, when you absolutely need to hold onto Thomas and Rambo, as you JUST drafted these guys and they need development time. You need to hold onto Doughty because he's proven to be a solid backup in case no one else sticks. From there you can draft or bring in FAs and let people duke out starting roles.

You've also cleaned house in the CB position, when you should considering signing Hall back who had a great year, hold onto Amerson, Crawford maaaybe Minnifield and potentially Gumbs who showed some potential towards the end of the year. Then start signing and drafting.

And crazily enough at TE position, you've let everyone go but Reed who has had a lingering concussion issue since college.

To me you're edging awfully close to the Cerrato method; blow up everything, keep almost no one and sign as many people as possible.

OK.I think you misunderstand what im saying.You bring guys like Rambo to camp but unless he makes a quantum leap as a player you are looking for a better option to make the final roster.I said we should bring back Thomas.There is no way Doughty or Merriweather should be back.Doughty is a 31 yr old FA who is a fringe backup player.Why resign him? Merriweather will be 30 in a few days and is a penalty waiting to happen and a FA. Why would you resign him. If your going to sign someone why would you bring back guys that have proven they can't get it done?

At CB Minniefield and Gumbs are welcome to camp as are all young players that are not guaranteed any money but to count on either would be foolish. Hall is a 30 yr old FA who has underachieved for the most part. Why resign him? You act like guys we had under contract last year are somehow still under contract when they are not.

At TE Fred Davis is a soon to be 28yr old FA who has shown no commitment and has never learned to block. Reed out played him and will start. Why bring back Davis? I was under the impression that Paulsen was a FA. I now see that he is under contract in which case i actually would bring him back.

You seem to be under the impression that all these FAs will return for free. They won't. You will have to sign them to a contract just the same as you would a potential upgrade. Why not seek the upgrade. Seems silly not to.

I'm new here but i will assume the Cerrato reference is kinda a through away term used but if you actually think about it it does not apply. Cerrato kept a lot of the same middle of the road talent year after year and pretended that if we could just add this or that superstar it would raise them to playoff level. All the while trading away draft picks and sticking with old past there prime guys. I have suggested nothing of the sort. Im suggesting we trim some fat from the roster to make room for some more young energy.

The problem we have had time after time is one coach trying to build his castle on the last guys foundation. It hasn't work. Time to take a new approach

T.O.Killa · 01-08-2014, 10:21 PM

It looks like they want to get rid of Will Montgomery. They have now signed to centers.

CRedskinsRule · 01-08-2014, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delusional optimist

OK.I think you misunderstand what im saying.You bring guys like Rambo to camp but unless he makes a quantum leap as a player you are looking for a better option to make the final roster.I said we should bring back Thomas.There is no way Doughty or Merriweather should be back.Doughty is a 31 yr old FA who is a fringe backup player.Why resign him? Merriweather will be 30 in a few days and is a penalty waiting to happen and a FA. Why would you resign him. If your going to sign someone why would you bring back guys that have proven they can't get it done?

At CB Minniefield and Gumbs are welcome to camp as are all young players that are not guaranteed any money but to count on either would be foolish. Hall is a 30 yr old FA who has underachieved for the most part. Why resign him? You act like guys we had under contract last year are somehow still under contract when they are not.

At TE Fred Davis is a soon to be 28yr old FA who has shown no commitment and has never learned to block. Reed out played him and will start. Why bring back Davis? I was under the impression that Paulsen was a FA. I now see that he is under contract in which case i actually would bring him back.

You seem to be under the impression that all these FAs will return for free. They won't. You will have to sign them to a contract just the same as you would a potential upgrade. Why not seek the upgrade. Seems silly not to.

I'm new here but i will assume the Cerrato reference is kinda a through away term used but if you actually think about it it does not apply. Cerrato kept a lot of the same middle of the road talent year after year and pretended that if we could just add this or that superstar it would raise them to playoff level. All the while trading away draft picks and sticking with old past there prime guys. I have suggested nothing of the sort. Im suggesting we trim some fat from the roster to make room for some more young energy.

The problem we have had time after time is one coach trying to build his castle on the last guys foundation. It hasn't work. Time to take a new approach

Shanallen turned over this roster very effectively. The problem wasn't trying to build on top of the old it just wasn't well built in certain areas.

You also don't throw out draft picks just because someone else drafted them, and you don't get rid of solid players like Doughty until someone proves better in camp at both special teams and run stopping.

Finally, you keep your free agents (the "good" ones) to build home grown teams.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

HailGreen28 · 01-08-2014, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCtoAZ

This shouldn't be that difficult people ...

BACK-

Orakpo-it's funny how everyone is down on this guy, he had a couple years battling injuries. When he's healthy as in this year the guy is a solid piece of building the defense back up. Kerrigan and Orakpo on the edges is a good thing period end of story.

Perry Riley-Shows flashes of greatness and I like em especially being tutoring under Fletch. I think this guy can shine and shouldn't cost too much.

Chris Baker aka Big Swaggy - This dude gives 110% every play even in giants finale .. that means something to me and i'm sure it does to people that will be making these decisions. And he can't cost too much .. solid

EJ Biggers - Depth only

Reed Doughty - YES he needs to be back, granted he's no pro bowl safety but he's a leader and a solid special teams guy ... not to mention he always comes to play ... these are the types of guys we need to stay put

D-Hall ... again another guy people dog way to much .. he's shutdown major WR's even with the worst defense in the league he's literally a bright spot .. lay off D-Hall .. he's grown up and deserves to be here to fix this thing

Now for the don't the let the door hit ya team -

Fred Davis -- get the F outta here .. i can't believe some people want to bring back this cancer .. see ya later freddie

D. Tapp ... if he was solid he would have seen the field .. rest my case

R. Jackson ... also seems like he will be solid then doesn't .. never lives up to hype IMO

Sex Grossman .. sorry bra .. it's been real

Santana Moss ... Dude should have his name on Skins' ring of fame ... he WAS one hell of a redskins and to be honest if he came back for dirt cheap i wouldn't mind having him around for one more year .. i'm kinda on fence cause i love this dude so much .. but he's getting up there in age and it finally started to show ... tough call but we have to start improving

Josh Morgan ... still pissed about that Rams game where he threw the ball and got the 15 yd pen back in 2012 ... later dude

Josh Wilson ... yeah he reps the DMV hard .. and I like the guy .. but he gets burned so much its' painful .. later

Nick Barnett .. again never saw playing time ? has to be a reason

JD Walton .. um who the F are you .. later dude i never knew

Nice list, I'd keep more guys like others have said. Nobody has an above average roster at every position, getting rid of some of these guys would create gaping holes in our starting roster and depth that won't all get filled next season.

Fred Davis - I would let him go, but I remember seeing Vernon Davis in Mike Singletary's doghouse too, now Vernon is a productive TE. As long as we can keep him cheap, he has potential in a new regime.

Rob Jackson - He plays well. If we turn our nose up at him, might as well let 3/4 of the team go, and play scrubs. And go 0-16.

Santana Moss - Wouldn't let him go until 3 other WRs outplay him. Other than Garcon, I'm not sure you can say that about any other WR on our roster. (Hankerson, Morgan, Robinson haven't stepped up yet, IMO.)

diehardskin2982 · 01-09-2014, 10:50 AM

Now that we know who our coach is I can put this list together.

2014 Free Agents (21 total FAs - Starters are in red):

Defense (15 FA/5 starters):

London Fletcher, ILB - 38 years old- Retired
Brian Orakpo, OLB - 27 years old- Bring back DE in 4-3
Chris Baker, NT/DE - 26 years old-Bring back
Nick Barnett, ILB - 32 years old- Send packing
EJ Biggers, CB/S - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition
Reed Doughty, S - 31 years old-Bring back camp competition
Jose Gumbs, S - 25 years old- Bring back camp competition
DeAngelo Hall, CB - 29 years old- Bring back
Rob Jackson, OLB/Playmaker - 28 years old- Bring back OLB in 4-3
Bryan Kehl, ILB - 29 years old- Send packing
Jerome Murphy, CB - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition
Perry Riley, ILB - 25 years old- Bring back MLB in 4-3
Darryl Tapp, OLB - 29 years old- Bring back camp competition
Josh Wilson, CB - 28 years old- Send packing
Doug Worthington, DE - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition

Offense (6 FA):
Dezmon Briscoe, WR - 24 years old- Bring back
Fred Davis, TE - 27 years old- Bring back
Rex Grossman, QB - 33 years old- Send packing
Josh Morgan, WR - 28 years old- Bring back
Santana Moss, WR - 34 years old-Bring Back Camp comp
Aldrick Robinson, WR - 25 years old- Bring back

CRedskinsRule · 01-16-2014, 09:13 PM

Yahoo weighs in
Y! SPORTS

GTripp0012 · 01-16-2014, 09:49 PM

Will Montgomery isn't going to start next season and probably makes too much to be a backup (then again, if you value line depth above all, he's reasonably priced). I imagine Lichtenstiger will be the center, the right guard isn't currently in the organization, and the left guard will be one of Gettis, LeRibeus, or Hurt (can't see the other two making the roster).

I don't think the team is really badly off at tackle right now, though it may be wise to turn the right side over to Compton sooner rather than later.

DynamiteRave · 01-16-2014, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Yahoo weighs in
Y! SPORTS

I've heard a lot of people saying we should hold onto Dez Briscoe. I think I agree. Give him one more year, I read that had he not gotten injured, he would have made the 53 man roster.

GTripp0012 · 01-16-2014, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Shanallen turned over this roster very effectively. The problem wasn't trying to build on top of the old it just wasn't well built in certain areas.

You also don't throw out draft picks just because someone else drafted them, and you don't get rid of solid players like Doughty until someone proves better in camp at both special teams and run stopping.

Remember the time when Shanahan got rid of draft picks just because somebody else drafted them?

skinsfan69 · 01-17-2014, 01:58 PM

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;1055897]Will Montgomery isn't going to start next season and probably makes too much to be a backup (then again, if you value line depth above all, he's reasonably priced). I imagine Lichtenstiger will be the center, the right guard isn't currently in the organization, and the left guard will be one of Gettis, LeRibeus, or Hurt (can't see the other two making the roster).

I don't think the team is really badly off at tackle right now, though it may be wise to turn the right side over to Compton sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE]

You want to go another year with Polumbus in pass protection? We can upgrade there. He just doesn't seem to be strong enough to hold up against a bull rush. I see too many times where he's on roller skates.

01-06-2014, 05:51 PM	#77
DynamiteRave Living Legend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington DC Age: 31 Posts: 15,133	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back Because you've let too many guys go. You can't expect to fill 20+ spots in the draft and FA alone. For example: You've cleaned house on the safety position, when you absolutely need to hold onto Thomas and Rambo, as you JUST drafted these guys and they need development time. You need to hold onto Doughty because he's proven to be a solid backup in case no one else sticks. From there you can draft or bring in FAs and let people duke out starting roles. You've also cleaned house in the CB position, when you should considering signing Hall back who had a great year, hold onto Amerson, Crawford maaaybe Minnifield and potentially Gumbs who showed some potential towards the end of the year. Then start signing and drafting. And crazily enough at TE position, you've let everyone go but Reed who has had a lingering concussion issue since college. To me you're edging awfully close to the Cerrato method; blow up everything, keep almost no one and sign as many people as possible. __________________ Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best. Someone needs to put McVay out of his misery. I'm a chick, damnit.

01-06-2014, 05:59 PM	#78
NC_Skins Gamebreaker Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13,313	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back DR is right. You can't just give half the team a pink slip even if they need it. You aren't going to be able to fill that many slots in the draft/FA. It's a process that takes time. Even when Shanny got here, he slowly changed to roster over drastically from what it was we he inherited it. Only a couple remained from the prior regime. I expect the same thing will happen this time around. He'll use some of these guys as stop gaps till he can replace them. __________________ "So let me get this straight. We have the event of the year on TV with millions watching around the world... and people want a punt, pass, and kick competition to be the halftime entertainment?? Folks, don't quit your day jobs."- Matty

01-06-2014, 06:47 PM	#79
DCtoAZ Impact Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Age: 37 Posts: 623	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back This shouldn't be that difficult people ... BACK- Orakpo-it's funny how everyone is down on this guy, he had a couple years battling injuries. When he's healthy as in this year the guy is a solid piece of building the defense back up. Kerrigan and Orakpo on the edges is a good thing period end of story. Perry Riley-Shows flashes of greatness and I like em especially being tutoring under Fletch. I think this guy can shine and shouldn't cost too much. Chris Baker aka Big Swaggy - This dude gives 110% every play even in giants finale .. that means something to me and i'm sure it does to people that will be making these decisions. And he can't cost too much .. solid EJ Biggers - Depth only Reed Doughty - YES he needs to be back, granted he's no pro bowl safety but he's a leader and a solid special teams guy ... not to mention he always comes to play ... these are the types of guys we need to stay put D-Hall ... again another guy people dog way to much .. he's shutdown major WR's even with the worst defense in the league he's literally a bright spot .. lay off D-Hall .. he's grown up and deserves to be here to fix this thing Now for the don't the let the door hit ya team - Fred Davis -- get the F outta here .. i can't believe some people want to bring back this cancer .. see ya later freddie D. Tapp ... if he was solid he would have seen the field .. rest my case R. Jackson ... also seems like he will be solid then doesn't .. never lives up to hype IMO Sex Grossman .. sorry bra .. it's been real Santana Moss ... Dude should have his name on Skins' ring of fame ... he WAS one hell of a redskins and to be honest if he came back for dirt cheap i wouldn't mind having him around for one more year .. i'm kinda on fence cause i love this dude so much .. but he's getting up there in age and it finally started to show ... tough call but we have to start improving Josh Morgan ... still pissed about that Rams game where he threw the ball and got the 15 yd pen back in 2012 ... later dude Josh Wilson ... yeah he reps the DMV hard .. and I like the guy .. but he gets burned so much its' painful .. later Nick Barnett .. again never saw playing time ? has to be a reason JD Walton .. um who the F are you .. later dude i never knew

01-06-2014, 07:01 PM	#80
DynamiteRave Living Legend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington DC Age: 31 Posts: 15,133	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back I think Moss needs to retire, he'd never start for any team at this rate and I think we do need to make room for younger talent. Barnett I think we might hold onto for depth purposes only. We definitely need to be on the lookout for a starter. __________________ Establishment, establishment, you always know what's best. Someone needs to put McVay out of his misery. I'm a chick, damnit.

01-08-2014, 10:21 PM	#82
T.O.Killa The Starter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Berlin, MD Posts: 2,056	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back It looks like they want to get rid of Will Montgomery. They have now signed to centers.

01-09-2014, 10:50 AM	#85
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,573	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back Now that we know who our coach is I can put this list together. 2014 Free Agents (21 total FAs - Starters are in red): Defense (15 FA/5 starters): London Fletcher, ILB - 38 years old- Retired Brian Orakpo, OLB - 27 years old- Bring back DE in 4-3 Chris Baker, NT/DE - 26 years old-Bring back Nick Barnett, ILB - 32 years old- Send packing EJ Biggers, CB/S - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition Reed Doughty, S - 31 years old-Bring back camp competition Jose Gumbs, S - 25 years old- Bring back camp competition DeAngelo Hall, CB - 29 years old- Bring back Rob Jackson, OLB/Playmaker - 28 years old- Bring back OLB in 4-3 Bryan Kehl, ILB - 29 years old- Send packing Jerome Murphy, CB - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition Perry Riley, ILB - 25 years old- Bring back MLB in 4-3 Darryl Tapp, OLB - 29 years old- Bring back camp competition Josh Wilson, CB - 28 years old- Send packing Doug Worthington, DE - 26 years old- Bring back camp competition Offense (6 FA): Dezmon Briscoe, WR - 24 years old- Bring back Fred Davis, TE - 27 years old- Bring back Rex Grossman, QB - 33 years old- Send packing Josh Morgan, WR - 28 years old- Bring back Santana Moss, WR - 34 years old-Bring Back Camp comp Aldrick Robinson, WR - 25 years old- Bring back __________________ That got ugly fast

01-16-2014, 09:13 PM	#86
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pasadena, Md Age: 50 Posts: 15,713	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back Yahoo weighs in Y! SPORTS

01-16-2014, 09:49 PM	#87
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 30 Posts: 15,994	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back Will Montgomery isn't going to start next season and probably makes too much to be a backup (then again, if you value line depth above all, he's reasonably priced). I imagine Lichtenstiger will be the center, the right guard isn't currently in the organization, and the left guard will be one of Gettis, LeRibeus, or Hurt (can't see the other two making the roster). I don't think the team is really badly off at tackle right now, though it may be wise to turn the right side over to Compton sooner rather than later. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

01-17-2014, 01:58 PM	#90
skinsfan69 MVP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington, VA and San Diego, CA Posts: 12,248	Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back [QUOTE=GTripp0012;1055897]Will Montgomery isn't going to start next season and probably makes too much to be a backup (then again, if you value line depth above all, he's reasonably priced). I imagine Lichtenstiger will be the center, the right guard isn't currently in the organization, and the left guard will be one of Gettis, LeRibeus, or Hurt (can't see the other two making the roster). I don't think the team is really badly off at tackle right now, though it may be wise to turn the right side over to Compton sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE] You want to go another year with Polumbus in pass protection? We can upgrade there. He just doesn't seem to be strong enough to hold up against a bull rush. I see too many times where he's on roller skates.

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