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Old 02-23-2014, 12:19 PM   #421
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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I think you have a point on this one. I'm not too concerned with what happens if we don't resign Orakpo, you know his upside and what he can be as a pass rusher for another team. He is a "light" rush end with the potential to have about 10 sacks per yr.

With Jackson, his potential as a OLB has just been scratched. He's on every list of top free agent OLBs.
He was a 3 down backer, made plays in coverage, looked instinctual in the field, and there wasn't a considerable drop off in position play when he played the whole yr. Sacks were down but he made plays in other ways.

So, if you let him walk, you are still letting "one of yours" go via free agency.

Value is what the Skins need to evaluate in making the right decision on this one. It's possible they could keep them both but that would be very costly for one position.
What if we were to let Orakpo walk and re-sign Rob Jackson who then fails another drug test and is suspended indefinitely? My point is that there is more to risk than possibly over-paying for performance in the case of Jackson.

The Fred Davis debacle doesn't make taking the risk that Jackson won't slip up and be suspended look good. That is a risk you take with a star like Trent Williams, but not necessarily with a middling OLB like Jackson.

All of our points are probably moot, anyway. Bruce Allen has been forthright about his desire to keep Orakpo and he can whether he does so by way of a new contract or via the Franchise Tag.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:21 PM   #422
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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What if we were to let Orakpo walk and re-sign Rob Jackson who then fails another drug test and is suspended indefinitely? My point is that there is more to risk than possibly over-paying for performance in the case of Jackson.

The Fred Davis debacle doesn't make taking the risk that Jackson won't slip up and be suspended look good. That is a risk you take with a star like Trent Williams, but not necessarily with a middling OLB like Jackson.

All of our points are probably moot, anyway. Bruce Allen has been forthright about his desire to keep Orakpo and he can whether he does so by way of a new contract or via the Franchise Tag.
What if T. Williams fails another drug test? That's not a reason for anything. He's in the league and his price point is affected by past performance. Value, value, value!
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:28 PM   #423
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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What if T. Williams fails another drug test? That's not a reason for anything. He's in the league and his price point is affected by past performance. Value, value, value!
Williams is a Pro Bowl player. Jackson is pedestrian. It's not easy to find a Pro Bowl OLT. Run-of-the-mill OLB's are much easier to find. Those are the differences between them. And that's why a team might take a risk on a player like Williams and not take the same risk on a player like Jackson.

If you don't think that Jackson's drug suspension affects his value on the open market, then you are mistaken. Of course, if his value is lessened by his suspension, then the Redskins could conceivably sign him for less money than he would have otherwise commanded. On the other hand, the value of an indefinitely suspended player is zero.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:53 PM   #424
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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Williams is a Pro Bowl player. Jackson is pedestrian. It's not easy to find a Pro Bowl OLT. Run-of-the-mill OLB's are much easier to find. Those are the differences between them. And that's why a team might take a risk on a player like Williams and not take the same risk on a player like Jackson.

If you don't think that Jackson's drug suspension affects his value on the open market, then you are mistaken. Of course, if his value is lessened by his suspension, then the Redskins could conceivably sign him for less money than he would have otherwise commanded. On the other hand, the value of an indefinitely suspended player is zero.
Your reasoning makes T Williams an unbearable risk, by your standards. Since your talking about an indefinitely suspended player's value being zero, T Williams being one incident from an indefinite suspension, so, your saying his value is nearly worthless. Then the skins should draft another starting LT. Right?
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:27 PM   #425
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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Yeah... Champ has gotten old. It happens to us all.

Does anyone know the franchise tag deadline?
Marty Booker
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:13 PM   #426
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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Your reasoning makes T Williams an unbearable risk, by your standards. Since your talking about an indefinitely suspended player's value being zero, T Williams being one incident from an indefinite suspension, so, your saying his value is nearly worthless. Then the skins should draft another starting LT. Right?
No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:58 PM   #427
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.
Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:18 PM   #428
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.
Apparently, Bruce Allen, Jay Gruden, and Jim Haslett must all have the same talent recognition disability that I have since they all have said that it is a top priority to sign Orakpo to a long-term contract.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:31 PM   #429
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.
Public negotiations, that's all.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:11 PM   #430
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.
This is spot on. I just hope we can get osackpo for 9.0 - 10.0 per year. Anything under 10.0 is a steal for orakpo, whom I believe still has his best days ahead of him.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:20 PM   #431
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

Rak will be on the team either by being resigned or franchised. I am disappointed to hear that the Bills may re-franchise Byrd. It also looks that we will be competing with the Browns for a lot of free agents.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:38 AM   #432
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

Seattle planning on releasing DE Red Bryant. He's only 29.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:20 PM   #433
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

If we signed Panthers free agents Greg Hardy and Mike Mitchell I would be ecstatic.

I would put Greg in a role similar to JJ Watt in our 3-4
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:04 PM   #434
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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If we signed Panthers free agents Greg Hardy and Mike Mitchell I would be ecstatic.

I would put Greg in a role similar to JJ Watt in our 3-4
I think they would be near perfect fits for our defense. Hardy would make it virtually impossible to contain our pass rush and Mitchell would anchor our secondary. Getting both of them would be a huge upgrade.

It would cost a bundle, though, and we have so many needs that it might not be realistic to think we could afford both of them.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:40 PM   #435
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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents

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I think they would be near perfect fits for our defense. Hardy would make it virtually impossible to contain our pass rush and Mitchell would anchor our secondary. Getting both of them would be a huge upgrade.

It would cost a bundle, though, and we have so many needs that it might not be realistic to think we could afford both of them.
I agree that getting both would upgrade our defense greatly, but Mitchell is going to be resigned and Hardy will likely be tagged. I, too, would be ecstatic if we signed Mitchell, though; I think he has a lot of upside, and wouldn't cost as much as Ward.
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