Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2014, 09:50 PM   #31
Franchise Player
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 9,914
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilgrin View Post
You have to seperate QB trades from everything else.

Trading a pick for Jason Taylor was not smart, trading a pick for TJ Duckett not smart... Trading Champ Bailey + a Pick for CP, not the best trade. I'd be inclined to never let the skins trade picks. In this era where QBs can make such a difference, you can't say no.
I'm inclined to think the portis trade was close to a wash. Otherwise...this.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 05-12-2014, 10:08 PM   #32
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 28
Posts: 14,441
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

T0t4lly 0ffIcal. Potatoeskins win RG[(84*7^2)-4113] trade.

Report: Stedman Bailey suspended for four games | ProFootballTalk

#Winning #Tigerblood
__________________
"Hey baby, wake up from your a sleep." -Zlad

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 03:27 PM   #33
The Starter
 
SirLK26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,163
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

NC Skins, I wanted to ask you this question(s) before, when this thread was still active, but I kept forgetting.

So anyway, are you happy with how our new FO worked the draft? We traded back and picked up more chances twice, and while the value of the selections can be argued, we did add more chances for a hit. Or would you have rather us stayed at the top of each round and had a chance at a more talented player? Just wondering because you posted this thread and link after the draft, so I was curious whether you were praising this FO for the draft, or condemning our last regime(basically over one, albeit big, trade-up).

Edit: Partially asking because as we all know, Shanahan liked to trade back, sometimes to Redskins fans' chagrin. But I suppose when he seen a special QB talent like Griffin, he felt justified in moving up, even with the price he payed.
__________________
"[Trent Murphy] is not going to stand there and be your b****. Be a gentleman, open doors for women, but when s*** hits the fan, he wants to whip you." - Jerry Murphy

MoveOn Petitions - Keep the Washington Redskins Name

Last edited by SirLK26; 05-21-2014 at 03:56 PM.
SirLK26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 04:12 PM   #34
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,357
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

ESPN did a poll on who won the trade and 80% thought the Rams won out. I think most Redskin fans are sold on RG3 being a franchise QB. I still see him being somewhat of a project in the pro game and that's why I would have never made the deal. Now if we gave up the picks to get Luck? I make that deal. I think it's a big year for not only Griffin, but also the Rams as they look ready to take the next step in a brutal division.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 04:22 PM   #35
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 41
Posts: 80,537
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

We won't know the true "winner" of the trade for years. Pointless to even try to judge it now. It's like grading a draft before the players even step on the field.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #36
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 25
Posts: 11,903
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk View Post
We won't know the true "winner" of the trade for years. Pointless to even try to judge it now. It's like grading a draft before the players even step on the field.
That is very true but if you kept score and since the NFL is about winning:

Redskins: 2012 NFC East Champions, 2012 Rookie of the year, "Potential Franchise QB"
Rams: Beat the Redskins in 2012, QB coming off a torn ACL
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpp3ycMvQd0

This is why you need Mentos. To justify your questionable problem solving skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7geP5ev0VI

Awesome isn't it.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 05:15 PM   #37
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,357
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
The draft is always interesting because there seems to be a lot of 'reach' picks that boils down to weather the front office knows better then everyone else or making you wonder if they're being too cute for their own good.

In regards to the RG3 trade I still say it was more than worth it. Actually I'm starting to think that it might have been a steal for us.

Now picture this. In an alternate universe the Rams get buyers remorse after which they call the Redskins and say we will give you the following

Redskins would recieve:
Greg Robinson - OT
Janoris Jenkins - CB
Michael Brockers - DT
Alec Ogletree - MLB/ILB
Steadman Bailey - WR


Rams would receive:
RG3 -QB

I imagine most of us would say hell no.

Granted its not an apples to apples comparison but also keep in mind that the 2013 QB class was pretty underwhelming talent wise and this year we might have found ourselves begging to draft Johnny Leaf I mean Manziel.

Right now had we not taken RG3 we likely would have Cousins as our QB which wouldn't have been horrible but I think a lot of us are a lot more comfortable with him as a backup. Sure you could say maybe they would have taken Wilson instead but I think its well known at this point after Luck and RG3 that Shanahan liked Cousins the most.
IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 05:23 PM   #38
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,357
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689 View Post
That is very true but if you kept score and since the NFL is about winning:

Redskins: 2012 NFC East Champions, 2012 Rookie of the year, "Potential Franchise QB"
Rams: Beat the Redskins in 2012, QB coming off a torn ACL
If you're counting 2012 then you have to count 2013 as well, and this team won 3 games last year. Rams won 7 with no QB.

On a side note, people seem to be writing off Sam Bradford. He was having a pretty good year before he was hurt.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 09:27 PM   #39
Naega jeil jal naga
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland
Age: 28
Posts: 14,441
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.
Well no doubt its solid and I genuinely believe that if Bradford stays healthy the trade will be one of the few win-wins in NFL history. However in terms of the players the Rams got, the way I feel is we've kind of had that caliber of players before and the best that happened was we eeked into the playoffs (Chris Samuals, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, and Randle-El (728 Yards in 07)). So it would be great to have those types of players but without a QB we wouldn't be a serious contender.

Granted again its not an apples to apples comparison as the Rams guys are younger not to mention different kinds of players but I honestly feel that the two most critical elements to winning a Super Bowl in this day and age are a top flight QB and Defense. And as tough as it is to put together an elite defense finding a QB the caliber of RG3 is exponentially harder.

I mean not to diminish the Seahawks scouting department but that number 1 ranked defense is essentially filled with guys who were no bodies going into the league. Some developed into elite pro bowlers like Sherman while many others have found great fits as rotational role players.
__________________
"Hey baby, wake up from your a sleep." -Zlad

"I feel like Dirtbag has been slowly and methodically trolling the board for a month or so now."
- FRPLG
Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:43 AM   #40
MVP
 
NC_Skins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,410
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLK26 View Post
NC Skins, I wanted to ask you this question(s) before, when this thread was still active, but I kept forgetting.

So anyway, are you happy with how our new FO worked the draft? We traded back and picked up more chances twice, and while the value of the selections can be argued, we did add more chances for a hit. Or would you have rather us stayed at the top of each round and had a chance at a more talented player? Just wondering because you posted this thread and link after the draft, so I was curious whether you were praising this FO for the draft, or condemning our last regime(basically over one, albeit big, trade-up).

Edit: Partially asking because as we all know, Shanahan liked to trade back, sometimes to Redskins fans' chagrin. But I suppose when he seen a special QB talent like Griffin, he felt justified in moving up, even with the price he payed.

I personally love the trade back with Dallas and felt like they bent Dallas over the table on that trade. Minnesota only gave up a 4th rounder to move up 8-9 spots back into the first round and Dallas gave up their 3rd rounder to move up 12 spots. When you look at the trade chart values, we gave up our pick worth 560 points and picked up two selections that combined a total of 630. Minnesota only gave up a mere 18 points between their compensation they gave up to move up to a loftier spot. As far as who they picked? I'm not a scout so there is no way I can judge the picks these guys made. I didn't have a issue with any of the picks, but I felt that the Murphy pick was a luxury pick when it was made. It seems like we had greater needs than a OLB. /shrug


I understand why Mike made the trade, but I also think Mike was a bit desperate as well. I didn't agree with it at the time due to the mere compensation, but it wasn't because I didn't like the player in return. I probably would have been happier to stay where we were and picked Tannehill and kept our 2nd and future 1st rounders. That's just me though because I do value more picks.

As far as those "polls" on who won the trade. Well, it's irrelevant on who won the trade based on the players picked. Rams won the trade based on value and that's the bottom line. It could turn out that all of the Rams players flops and RGIII goes to the hall of fame. On the other hand, RGIII may end up flopping and all of the Rams players picked end up in the hall of fame. Last scenario, all players on both sides of the trade could end up flopping. Who won the trade is the moment compensation is traded, and that's purely looking at it from a numbers perspective.

Matty is right though. It's still way too early in declaring any "winners" between any of the players involved in the trade. Hell, look how many years Brees took to blossom or how long it took the Chargers to see any dividends on Rivers from the Eli trade.

One more thing, it takes more than having just "more" picks to be successful. You still need a competent GM/scouting staff that knows how to pick players for their schemes. You can give all the picks in the world to idiots like Vinny and still field a shitty team.
__________________
"So let me get this straight. We have the event of the year on TV with millions watching around the world... and people want a punt, pass, and kick competition to be the halftime entertainment?? Folks, don't quit your day jobs."- Matty
NC_Skins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 01:57 AM   #41
You did WHAT?!?
 
EARTHQUAKE2689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 25
Posts: 11,903
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.
I imagine the exact opposite, I dont think any would make that trade.

Greg Robinson hasnt played yet
As far as Steadman's potential, potential will get you fired.
Janoris Jenkins is a decent to above average corner.
Michael Brockers and Alec Ogletree aren't anything to write home about right now.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpp3ycMvQd0

This is why you need Mentos. To justify your questionable problem solving skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7geP5ev0VI

Awesome isn't it.
EARTHQUAKE2689 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 09:02 AM   #42
The Starter
 
SirLK26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,163
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Skins View Post
I personally love the trade back with Dallas and felt like they bent Dallas over the table on that trade. Minnesota only gave up a 4th rounder to move up 8-9 spots back into the first round and Dallas gave up their 3rd rounder to move up 12 spots. When you look at the trade chart values, we gave up our pick worth 560 points and picked up two selections that combined a total of 630. Minnesota only gave up a mere 18 points between their compensation they gave up to move up to a loftier spot. As far as who they picked? I'm not a scout so there is no way I can judge the picks these guys made. I didn't have a issue with any of the picks, but I felt that the Murphy pick was a luxury pick when it was made. It seems like we had greater needs than a OLB. /shrug


I understand why Mike made the trade, but I also think Mike was a bit desperate as well. I didn't agree with it at the time due to the mere compensation, but it wasn't because I didn't like the player in return. I probably would have been happier to stay where we were and picked Tannehill and kept our 2nd and future 1st rounders. That's just me though because I do value more picks.

As far as those "polls" on who won the trade. Well, it's irrelevant on who won the trade based on the players picked. Rams won the trade based on value and that's the bottom line. It could turn out that all of the Rams players flops and RGIII goes to the hall of fame. On the other hand, RGIII may end up flopping and all of the Rams players picked end up in the hall of fame. Last scenario, all players on both sides of the trade could end up flopping. Who won the trade is the moment compensation is traded, and that's purely looking at it from a numbers perspective.

Matty is right though. It's still way too early in declaring any "winners" between any of the players involved in the trade. Hell, look how many years Brees took to blossom or how long it took the Chargers to see any dividends on Rivers from the Eli trade.

One more thing, it takes more than having just "more" picks to be successful. You still need a competent GM/scouting staff that knows how to pick players for their schemes. You can give all the picks in the world to idiots like Vinny and still field a shitty team.
Thanks.
__________________
"[Trent Murphy] is not going to stand there and be your b****. Be a gentleman, open doors for women, but when s*** hits the fan, he wants to whip you." - Jerry Murphy

MoveOn Petitions - Keep the Washington Redskins Name
SirLK26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:34 PM   #43
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,357
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Well no doubt its solid and I genuinely believe that if Bradford stays healthy the trade will be one of the few win-wins in NFL history. However in terms of the players the Rams got, the way I feel is we've kind of had that caliber of players before and the best that happened was we eeked into the playoffs (Chris Samuals, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, and Randle-El (728 Yards in 07)). So it would be great to have those types of players but without a QB we wouldn't be a serious contender.

Granted again its not an apples to apples comparison as the Rams guys are younger not to mention different kinds of players but I honestly feel that the two most critical elements to winning a Super Bowl in this day and age are a top flight QB and Defense. And as tough as it is to put together an elite defense finding a QB the caliber of RG3 is exponentially harder.

I mean not to diminish the Seahawks scouting department but that number 1 ranked defense is essentially filled with guys who were no bodies going into the league. Some developed into elite pro bowlers like Sherman while many others have found great fits as rotational role players.
This is where we see it differently. I didn't see RG3, as a pro prospect, head and shoulders above Wilson, Foles, Tannehill or even Cousins.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 12:56 PM   #44
Impact Rookie
 
Gary84Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 744
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
This is where we see it differently. I didn't see RG3, as a pro prospect, head and shoulders above Wilson, Foles, Tannehill or even Cousins.
we know you want cousin to be our QB , glad you not in charge.
Gary84Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2014, 01:02 PM   #45
Impact Rookie
 
Gary84Clark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 744
Re: Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

How many will the Rams keep pass their rookie contracts?
Gary84Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.37575 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25