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Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

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Old 04-25-2005, 01:36 AM   #31
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

That's a good post and I think you're right. Kind of brings me back to those days with Montana and the 49ers. Steve Young waited behind Montana for years...and when Montana was out with injury, Walsh could simply plug Young in and things went on business as usual. I believe that is the samething that Gibbs wants. You might have one great QB, but if he goes out, you want to know that there is someone you can plug into the system no problem.
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Old 04-25-2005, 01:40 AM   #32
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

How can u believe that?? When was Ramsey given a chance by Gibbs. Ramsey is a good QB n in the right system n under a good coach who gave him confidence he would have done better.
We traded 3 PICKS for an unproven QB who a lot projected as a 2nd rounder!! As far as Brunell is concerned I think he should never come on the field when regular season starts. See with everything that is happening I am not amazed that Coles just up and left. When your own coaching staff is doing everything in the world to undermine you n your confidence, what's the point.
As far as Ramsey is concerned I firmly believe that Gibbs has not given him a leg to stand on n grow. This year instead of giving him more weapons like a dominant WR he drafts Campbell who will not see any playing time for atleast 2 years!! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WE DRAFTED A QB!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Jason Campbell was a courageous draft pick by Joe Gibbs.

The reality is that Gibbs is not convinced that Ramsey is the best player to rest the Redskins' future on. I love that we can give Ramsey a last chance and bring Campbell along without the pressure.

I also am glad Mark Brunell is on the team. With him being at full health for next year, and with a stable offensive line, he may get a chance to show that the old Mark Brunell who has had such an admirable career can still play. People blithely dismiss Brunell and ignore the circumstances which dramatically limited his ability to perform. If Ramsey falters, we can go to Brunell, expect a much different calibur of play, and still let Campbell wait in the wings.

Ramsey still has a chance, and I wish him luck. But there is no way in my book that we should invest the future of the team in a player who has yet to show great promise. He may yet do that, but Gibbs owes it to the team and the fans not to gamble that Ramsey will develop the way we hope he will.
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:28 AM   #33
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

the more i think about it, the less bad the campbell pick seems. ive read a lot of ppls arguments for the pick, and it makes sense to have 2 quality players at the position. ramsey is going into a contract year i believe, and if he doesnt pan out, then campbell will be ready right away. the competition could push ramsey like it did brees to have a breakout year. who knows.
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:29 AM   #34
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

jaws also thought campbell was better than rogers because he can make "all the throws" and other stuff, so this wasnt as far a reach as a lot of ppl may think
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:45 AM   #35
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Jason Campbell was a courageous draft pick by Joe Gibbs.

The reality is that Gibbs is not convinced that Ramsey is the best player to rest the Redskins' future on. I love that we can give Ramsey a last chance and bring Campbell along without the pressure.

I also am glad Mark Brunell is on the team. With him being at full health for next year, and with a stable offensive line, he may get a chance to show that the old Mark Brunell who has had such an admirable career can still play. People blithely dismiss Brunell and ignore the circumstances which dramatically limited his ability to perform. If Ramsey falters, we can go to Brunell, expect a much different calibur of play, and still let Campbell wait in the wings.

Ramsey still has a chance, and I wish him luck. But there is no way in my book that we should invest the future of the team in a player who has yet to show great promise. He may yet do that, but Gibbs owes it to the team and the fans not to gamble that Ramsey will develop the way we hope he will.
So how was Ramseys circumstances different from Brunell, other than Brunell having the good pleasure of working with the first team and getting the majority of reps for half a season? Ramsey outplayed Brunell under worse conditions than Brunell encountered, but Brunell we are to believe was a victim of circumstances? If any body gets that kind of slack its Ramsey.

The fact that you give Brunell such praise should only bolster confidence in ramsey considering he outplayed such a savey QB, with less experience in the same offense.

I will say this for the last time Ramsey is more talented than Rypien, Schroeder, Williams, or Humphries, but he's been thrown to the wolves since day 1 give the guy a chance to have some stability, all I here is how we came on at the end of last season, but Ramsey has to go, he played half a season last year in a new offense, AGAIN! And yes it was the second half.
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:16 AM   #36
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

I am sick of the ... "oh our front office is SOooooo stupid as are "fans" who might be able to see the benefit in anything they do.. they are such meat heads.... " attitude that prevails on this and many other message boards at the moment .

Being pessimistic is not the same as being right as being optimist is not the same as being a true fan . The draft is as the draft has always been its a crap shoot . You could draft 20 guys all rated highest in their field and people would still whine because we did not pick their player who will go on to rule the NFL and yet the same people are not so high on them after they drop out of the league in 4 years time to sell real estate .

Can we at least wait until some of these players take to the field before we judge them . Equally can we give Gibbs time to build a team before we rip him and his plans to bits . What he has right now is the bits of teams left over from previous management's . Coles was a Spurrier guy, Gardner a Marty guy, McCants a Marty guy Ramsey Dan Snyders pick etc etc.

I see what Gibbs is trying to do is build a franchise, a team something that cannot be done over night. I might be wrong to have faith in what they are doing but I am at least giving them a chance, it doesn't make me any better or smarter but I for one see the core coming together but it doesn't necessary include the star players everyone mentions . The thing is the core is the glue that holds things together guys like dare I say it James Thrash, Ethan Albright, Joe Salve, Demetric Evans, Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas. In FA you are always going to loose some of the people you want to keep but so does every team. Do you really think the Colts wanted to loose Washington ? And before anyone says the players I mention aren't headed to Canton at any time need to look at who is already there and see if you can see Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Chales Mann, Wilber Marshell or even Darrell Green in there ( although i am not sure he is eligible just yet but if Art cannot get in there you think Green will?)...

All I am saying is sure you can have your oppinion and I know no one is going to agree with me but dont please don't condescend other fans who may not have the same mind set as you do . If you hate what our front office is doing so bad to the point at which you cannot root for the Skins anymore then there are 31 other teams who could use your support and at the end of the day that is what fans are to for to support the team.
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:53 AM   #37
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

"You maybe don't picture that" as the ideal draft pick in that situation, Gibbs said. "But I feel like for us and for the value to the organization long-term, I don't think you ever go wrong with a quarterback. I guess that's what I'm saying: If you've got somebody you think is talented and can play for you, I think you look at that and say, 'Where's the value of the pick?' And we felt like certainly he was the guy we needed to get."


You never go wrong with a QB?????????????

I can't believe Gibbs said that, it's like Brunell never happened?

$43mil and basically a season of stunting Ramseys growth and experience as a QB in his system, a third rd pick, and you can't go wrong??????

It's statements like that, that really make me wonder.

Between giving Portis who is a system back and making him a power back at 200lbs soak and wet, while handing him 50mil, and giving up a second rd pick besides Champ and all we heard is we HAD to have him, then the Brunell fiasco, and now Campbell, it's like the dallas cowboys are picking and signing players for us, we couldn't do a worse job if we tried, and Gibbs will defend every move to his grave, I am tired of it, I am tired of hearing this guy or that guy fought his guts out everytime he screws up, I am tired of hearing how important Brunell is to our team, I am tired of hearing about Clintons 1300 yards that Gibbs took 2 years off his NFL life trying to get ot justify the trade and the money, with no mention of his over 1 and a half yard decrease per carry, Gibbs needs to swallow his pride instead of continually trying to justify these moves because they are holding this team back.
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:40 AM   #38
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

rather have it and not need it,than need it and not have it.
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Old 04-25-2005, 06:37 AM   #39
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

Call me crazy but I still dont see how Portis is a system back...
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Old 04-25-2005, 08:22 AM   #40
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

I've gone on record in the other threads and expressed my displeasure with the Redskins draft. The WR need could/should have been addressed with Mike Williams. I understand it more after hearing Gibbs talk about Rogers as someone who they expect to not only replace Smoot, but improve on what we had there.

Regarding Campbell.. I can see the long term logic in it and I guess as fans we need to look big picture. Despite the excuses we throw around for Ramsey, bottom line is he hasn't gotten it done to the point where QB is not a question mark. Gibbs, in spite of the Brunell debacle, hasn't been wrong on too many QB in the past, they have all been more successful under him than they were anywhere else.. He must see/feel that Ramsey has things that prevents him from being one of the elite QB in the league..

Yes, there were more immediate needs at other positions, but if you listen to what Gibbs says, he says clearly that he is rebuilding the FRANCHISE not a team. That means long term and he obviously doesn't see Ramsey as a long term franchise QB. Gibbs is rare in NFL circles that he doesn't have to draft for now in order to protect his job security.

If the defense returns to it's stature from last year, which is possible since they only lost 2 starters and are getting (hopefully) a healthy return of Barrow, Bowen and Arrington plus Rogers, then on that side of the ball we should be in every game. Offensively there are a ton of questions, no doubt about that. Can Ramsey perform? Can Moss be the game breaker he was in 2002/2003? Who else will emerge at WR? Will Gardner be back and be productive? Will a year in the system/adjustments to the gameplan make Portis the threat he was supposed to be when we traded for him? Those questions are going to make or break our season, not what happened in the past 72 hrs.
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Old 04-25-2005, 08:51 AM   #41
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bedlamVR
Can we at least wait until some of these players take to the field before we judge them . Equally can we give Gibbs time to build a team before we rip him and his plans to bits .
I totally agree with you...but if we don't judge them now what will we talk about? I'd hate to wait until September to read new posts here on the Warpath
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Old 04-25-2005, 09:17 AM   #42
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

Let's not diss Joe Gibbs like that he is still the coach that got us 3 super bowls. I mean Campbell made alot of Patrick Ramsey fans mad but get over it. I am glad we drafted a QB better than going to the free agent market getting dinosaurs. I hope we draft a QB about every 2 years keep them young and fresh you never know when you find the next Tom Brady. The patriots have drafted like 10 QB's over their super bowl run you dont find Tom Brady's by research alone you take chances the draft is a gamble. Personally i think Braylon Edwards will be the next Michael Westbrook who knows? you have to think about the team first Ramsey second. Ramsey has yet to prove anything except he's tough but in the nfl if the redskins are gonna return to prominence you need a QB that dont give up all those sacks and throw all those interceptions. Plus Campbell went undefeated in the (SEC mind you) in an offense similar to ours. Why hasn't anyone posted any interviews from Campbell gee whiz. Dont treat the guy like that yet. Lord forbid he have a season like Ramsey's last year everyone here would be ready to cut him. I'm wit Coach Gibbs on this one so shoot me.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:48 AM   #43
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

To all the post that say Gibbs has not given Ramsey a chance to prove himself are totaly wrong. He had prseason last year and look terrible. He had seven games last year and showed some signs of improving but nothing great. To say that signing another QB hurts his convidence then he must not have alot of convidence in himself and his skills. This is a sport that you have to prove yourself every time on the field and Ramsey has on shown flashes of a starting QB and thats all. He will have the opportunity again this year and if he cannot show he can lead this team we are forced to look in another direction. With Brunell we know he cannot lead this team to the playoffs and we had to have a QB in position if this happens. I was surprised by the pick and I hope Ramsey can show he has the tallent to lead our team.
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Old 04-25-2005, 11:01 AM   #44
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

I know we all talk about bringing along a QB slow, but I really would like to see Campbell beat out Brunell in camp to be the #2. I'd prefer him anyday as a backup (provided Brunell really HAS lost it).
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Old 04-25-2005, 11:03 AM   #45
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Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"

Let's put a couple of issues to bed here.

#1, the current group of Skins WRs are not Canton-bound nor are they one of the best corps in the league. Are they a group with some potential? Sure. Let's leave it at that.

#2, If a player isn't Canton-bound, does that mean they are complete scrubs? Definitely not. Show me any NFL roster and I'll show you a large majority of that roster that is NOT Canton-bound.

#3, I know we are all draft and NFL personnel gurus , but can we at least give this current draft crop a year before they are ultimately judged? Let's at least give these guys a shot to get on the field. Last year we made some questionable acquisitions in a lot of people's eyes (Griffin, Springs) and they ended up playing at a Pro Bowl level.

Overall we made some nice personnel moves last year, let's give this current group a chance to at least hit the field. That's all I ask.

I know we all play alot of Madden and we know what to look for, but for now maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt to this staff who does this for a full-time job and have been studying these players hours upon hours a day for the last few months.
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