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McCants: Your thoughts?

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Old 05-02-2005, 01:47 PM   #61
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Healthy competition is one thing, but it really seems like Gibb's doesn't want Patrick period.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:07 PM   #62
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinsJunkie
2 different situations. Brady came in because a guy was hurt. It was a much easier decision to make when the incumbant is a) hurt b) old and c) going into a contract year. Belichek obviously didn't see that much difference in the 2 QBs to pay out the money to keep Bledsoe and he knew that he could get good value from him by trading him for picks. Ramsey/Brunell/Campbell is a completely different scenerio.
Wait you changed the subject:
You brought it up in the context of a young QB not having to look over his shoulder and not feeling confidant. Not about which QB the coach should choose or what trade value that QB has.

Regarding your points that it was easier for coach Bellichek because:
a) the incumbant is hurt
b) the incumbant is old
c) going into contract year

The old and hurt incumbant (Bledsoe) was healthy and on the sidelines and ready to go before the playoffs strated in 2001 season. Brady got hurt in the in a very close AFC Champioship game against the Steelers and Bledsoe led them to the victiory. It was a day before the SB that Bellichek decided to go with Brady after Bledsoe played so well in the Steeler game the week prior.

I was living in Boston from 2000-2004; I was there and there was a huge QB controversy leading into that first SB win in 2001. It was not an easy decision for Bellichek, the city was leaning more towards going with the vet Bledsoe. It was a very unpopular decision in Boston that he went with Brady. Despite all of this pressure, the very young 6th round draft pick (Brady) did just fine.
That is real pressure, getting picked to start the SB over a multi-probowl player and having that probowl player HEALTHY on the side line ready to go.
With Ramsey's weak confidance with Brunnell on his team, he would not have handled this situation since it is more tense.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:10 PM   #63
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by RedskinsJunkie
Healthy competition is one thing, but it really seems like Gibb's doesn't want Patrick period.
No, he just wants to have back up incase Ramsey gets hurt or cannot handle the pressure.
Gibbs would have traded Ramsey when teams were offering high 2nd round - low 1st round picks for him last year. What did Gibbs say at that time? No, Ramsey is our future QB.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:26 PM   #64
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Matty, it was pretty obvious that Brunnel wasn't taking anyones job (though he took it for too long.) Also, not all players respond the way Brees did with someone breathing down their throat. Honestly, some players aren't good at blocking that whole "Im going to lose my job" aspect. Think of it in your work place, do they have a guy sitting at the desk right behind you, just waiting for you to screw up so he can take your job? Do you get nervous when people closely inspect what you do constantly? It happens.

Why can't we give Ramsey a year where he's the starter hands down, no one to take his spot, no drama.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:47 PM   #65
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Gibbs has repeatedly said Ramsey is the starter for 2005 and beyond, the only drama is coming from the media and fans.

Besides, if Ramsey can't handle the pressure, I don't want him here, who wants a QB who can't handle pressure??

If Ramsey was one of the top QBs in the league it would be different. Problem is he hasn't earned the right to not have his job challenged.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:53 PM   #66
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daseal
......Why can't we give Ramsey a year where he's the starter hands down, no one to take his spot, no drama.
I thought we already had that, is was 2003. Or does that not count for whatever reason...?

2003 QB Stats:


Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
Patrick Ramsey 337 179 2166 53.1 6.4 14 4.2 9 2.7 64 30/206 75.8
Tim Hasselbeck 177 95 1012 53.7 5.7 5 2.8 7 4.0 40 9/44 63.6
Rod Gardner 3 2 46 66.7 15.3 2 66.7 0 0.0 36 0/0 149.3
Rob Johnson 7 5 39 71.4 5.6 0 0.0 0 0.0 14 3/15 84.8
Gibran Hamdan 2 1 7 50.0 3.5 0 0.0 0 0.0 7 1/2 58.3
Bryan Barker 1 1 3 100.0 3.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 3 0/0 79
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:57 PM   #67
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Forgive me for joining this discussion late, but about McCants and special teams, I have one question.

Does anyone remember Rod Gardner ever playing special teams?

I sure as hell don't. If not, why did Gardner get a free pass all last year to the starting squad while he had one good performance every 6 or 7 games, all while not playing a single time on special teams?
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Old 05-02-2005, 03:10 PM   #68
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

I'd love to see Brunell on special teams! Har har har...
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Old 05-02-2005, 03:15 PM   #69
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins
Do you mean Ramsey's confidence is so weak that we can not have another good QB on the roster or it will 'mess with his head?
If so, get rid of him. We can not have a QB we have hold his hand and have to reassure all time for him to play well. This the NFL and you will always have competition/back ups on your team.
If you look at my original reasons for Ramsey possibly having a psychological problem, you'd see that having another good QB on the roster is not the only reason. We all KNOW that Gibbs brought in Brunell to start.

Say you have earned the starting spot after playing fairly well for a couple years, getting sacked repeatedly only to have your new coach draft a veteran and a college kid the next, how do you think people would feel?. Gibbs definitely spouted some rhetoric in saying that the competition would determine who would be starter. Ramsey played well enough to be starter years prior, why should he have to RE-try out for his job?

People are saying that if he is too fragile to handle this or too fragile to handle that, then maybe he's not the right one for us. Ramsey has, for lack of a better term, been shit on fairly heavily in terms of things that are detrimental to a person's psyche.
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Old 05-02-2005, 03:23 PM   #70
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins
Wait you changed the subject:
You brought it up in the context of a young QB not having to look over his shoulder and not feeling confidant. Not about which QB the coach should choose or what trade value that QB has.

Regarding your points that it was easier for coach Bellichek because:
a) the incumbant is hurt
b) the incumbant is old
c) going into contract year

The old and hurt incumbant (Bledsoe) was healthy and on the sidelines and ready to go before the playoffs strated in 2001 season. Brady got hurt in the in a very close AFC Champioship game against the Steelers and Bledsoe led them to the victiory. It was a day before the SB that Bellichek decided to go with Brady after Bledsoe played so well in the Steeler game the week prior.

I was living in Boston from 2000-2004; I was there and there was a huge QB controversy leading into that first SB win in 2001. It was not an easy decision for Bellichek, the city was leaning more towards going with the vet Bledsoe. It was a very unpopular decision in Boston that he went with Brady. Despite all of this pressure, the very young 6th round draft pick (Brady) did just fine.
That is real pressure, getting picked to start the SB over a multi-probowl player and having that probowl player HEALTHY on the side line ready to go.
With Ramsey's weak confidance with Brunnell on his team, he would not have handled this situation since it is more tense.
Bledsoe was hurt pretty early in the year if I remember correctly and Brady had one heck of a year. You could compare that to Rothlesburger (I know I can't spell) because it is pretty similar although Maddox isn't quite Bledsoe.

When Brady got hurt Bledsoe had a great game against the steelers yes, but It was Brady's team at that point. They could have put Bledsoe in well before the Steelers game because he was healthy enough to play. The move to get Brady in and Bledsoe out came out of necesity at first but then it was a shrewed move by Belichek knowing he had value in Bledsoe and he traded him for picks (at least one first rounder right??). We gave away 3 picks for a guy that Gibbs called a project? Listen, I hope all of this turns out for the best, I am just saying that Ramsey needs to be given the team and the trust to prosper.
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Old 05-02-2005, 03:37 PM   #71
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Ramsey rookie year:
year G com att % yds yds/att TD INT SACK rating
2002 WAS 10 117 227 51.5 1539 6.8 9 8 18 71.8

Elway rookie year:
1983 DEN 11 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28 54.9

My point here is give the guy some time... Sure looks like they might be packing it in on Ramsey a little too soon...
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Old 05-02-2005, 05:19 PM   #72
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
I think we forget to fast that even Aikman was being scrutinized as a starter after his 3rd year, there were people who wanted buerline, others who wanted Walsh, and Aikmen did nothing up till that point to distinguish himself in any way as a starter or future star in the league, he finally put it all together his 4th year and the rest is history, not every QB needs that kind of time but depending on the circumstances and the team that surrounds you it can very well take that long, and Ramsey considering all the changes he's gone through as well he has been around for 3 years but hasen't played a whole lot in that span defiently falls into the catagory to be givin a lot of slack. He has 23 starts under his belt that amount's to less than a season and a half of experience, with 6 more appearances as a backup.
Good point.
I hope Ramsey can turn it around....as well as Talyor Jacobs , Betts and Derrick Dockery.
These guys have a ton of potential.
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Old 05-02-2005, 05:46 PM   #73
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven
Forgive me for joining this discussion late, but about McCants and special teams, I have one question.

Does anyone remember Rod Gardner ever playing special teams?

I sure as hell don't. If not, why did Gardner get a free pass all last year to the starting squad while he had one good performance every 6 or 7 games, all while not playing a single time on special teams?
I'm sure you're aware of this, Beems, but generally speaking, first-round picks don't play much on special teams (unless they're stellar kick returners)-- even less so when they become incumbent starters at a skill position like wide receiver, and particularly when they're a player the team has targeted as potential trade bait.

McCants sat on the bench primarily because he doesn't play special teams as well as any of the other players on the roster who do play special teams-- it's not necessarily from a lack of trying. McCants was not a first-round pick, nor was he an incumbent starter. Combine that with the fact that he has a reputation for not practicing as well as the other players at his position (yes, Gardner is a much better practice player than McCants, from what I've seen), and you have your answer.

It looks like McCants may have the chance to prove himself this year, but he's going to have to make his presence known in training camp and the preseason games if he wants a shot at some playing time. He's got to shake this attitude that he only needs to show up on gameday. If he keeps thinking that way, he'll continue to show up on gameday wearing street clothes.
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:51 PM   #74
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Some players are very poor practice players. But they show up on gameday - if they do that. Let em' play!
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:07 PM   #75
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Re: McCants: Your thoughts?

Quote:
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Joe I know you attend the camps, is that your evaluation on McCants, that he doesn't put forth the effort in practice, or is he just a lowsey practice player?
Some players just lack focus during practice, for any number of reasons (they find it tedious or boring, they have distractions in their personal life, they're not motivated to practice, etc.). What I've noticed about McCants in practice is that he just doesn't seem to be 100% "there". He drops passes, he rounds off routes, and generally doesn't show the same kind of effort that you would see guys like Coles, Gardner, Thrash and Jacobs giving on every snap.

I know, I know-- "he was a great red-zone threat during Spurrier's brief tenure, he shouldn't have to prove himself anymore, didn't Gibbs watch any film from the Spurrier years?"-- but Gibbs has answered the McCants question a dozen times or more, and the answer is always: "he didn't play 'teams', and he wasn't one of our top three wideouts, so we had to put the 'teams' guys on the active roster."

I'm not sure what else Gibbs can say to convince people that McCants had not done anything to make himself a gameday roster priority for this coaching staff.

The funny thing is, early last offseason, Gibbs apparently watched the film of McCants and liked what he saw-- even going so far as to suggest that McCants possesses some of the physical attributes that made Art Monk such a great receiver in Gibbs's system-- and the team gave McCants a healthy new contract which ostensibly indicated the team had big plans for him.

Apparently, McCants didn't live up to those expectations last year. I'm not sure how you could interpret his lack of playing time and productivity any other way. There's no anti-McCants conspiracy here-- he just wasn't good enough.

Here's hoping all of this negative talk (which McCants apparently took note of this offseason-- witness his journal entries) motivates McCants to make himself worthy of a weekly gameday roster spot. Lord knows, the Redskins could sure use another Art Monk-- even if it's just somebody who evokes vague references to Monk. Just ask Joe Gibbs.
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