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Sean Taylor - What if...

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Old 05-18-2005, 10:51 AM   #16
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

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Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21
Apples and Oranges. None of the injured players pulled the same sh!t Taylor is pulling. Of course they wouldn't be benched.....they did nothing to deserve it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think it's completely out of question to bench players that piss all over you. It wouldn't be the first time a starter was put on the bench to send a message. It's been done in all professional sports. Personally, I like what Gruden did to Keyshawn, and I hope more coaches grow the balls to do that to other players like him in the future.

Apples and Oranges...you are comparing Me-Shawn Johnson, who yelled and physically threatened his head coach (on National TV) (on the sideline during a game) to Sean Taylor, who missed a few VOLUNTARY work outs, a BS rookie meeting, and wants a new contract? Not even close.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:57 AM   #17
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

If he shows for camp and his contract isn't an issue, why would he not be the starter? We can't really punish him for not showing to voluntary workouts, as much as it may irk the staff.

This whole thing probably irritates the fans more than the team and coaches.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:00 AM   #18
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

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Originally Posted by Daseal
Am I the only one who thinks our defense was better BECAUSE Bowen was out? He had a great game vs TB, but that guy is horrible in passing situations.
If Taylor is the best player at his position, he should start.

Now I disagree about Bowen. I think he brought a good demention to our defense; with his blitzes and play against the run. I think he should be taken out on passing situations, because both Andre Lott and Ryan Clark are faster than he is. Its not to say he'll never face the situation, but I dont think him being injured helped our team.

When you look at the whole picture, we have 4 very capable safties; and two are going to play. No matter which two are playing, I dont really see that as a big problem area on the team. I think Lott, Clark, Bowen and obviously Taylor are good enough to be put in and not miss a beat.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:01 AM   #19
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

HE'LL START if he shows up at 12:45 right before we open with Chicago......now that may be pushing it, but he has done nothing yet to relinquish his starting role besides being a "ME" guy......and making me hate him for it......HE'LL START FOR SURE.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:22 AM   #20
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

If Taylor is burnt out on football, then I say it's actually GOOD that he's taking a break from it. If you're burnt out now, you better take a break now, because I absolutely don't want him burnt out DURING the season.

Any time you want to miss something that's voluntary, that's entirely up to you. That's a choice you make yourself, but you have to bear in mind that if you miss, there are going to be other guys on the team who are there preparing. That could mean that they get better, and make a bigger impression on the coaches. If one of those players shows that they deserve the spot more than Taylor, then Taylor should get benched. But he shouldn't get benched just because he misses voluntary workouts.

Now, do I think somebody on the team can beat out Sean Taylor? Hell no. But that's the way you have to approach it. If Sean Taylor can earn his starting spot just by showing up to mandatory practices and skipping the voluntary ones, then he deserves the starting job.

When you do only what is required of you, that's synonymous with doing the bare minimum. Guys who do the bare minimum aren't the types I want to make a part of my core group of Redskins, and I'll bet Gibbs feels that way too, so maybe Taylor should consider the effects this move will have on his contract negotiations and where he stands with Gibbs. I'd be willing to hand over a bit more cash for someone who goes the extra mile. Benching him isn't the answer, you play the best player, period. But how much you're willing to pay him come contract time, that's where it gets interesting.

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Old 05-18-2005, 11:27 AM   #21
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

If he goes out and performs as the best player on the defense for the next 4 years, while missing voluntary practices, then I would still want to pay top dollar to resign him. But I wouldn't give him more than the 2nd best player on the defense (for the sake of argument, Lavar Arrington), as long as that defensive player is going the extra mile and working even when he's not required. If that means Sean Taylor leaves for a better deal elsewhere, so be it.

On our team, extra work should be rewarded. That fosters the right kind of team attitude and encourages leadership.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:36 AM   #22
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

All of this talk is showing that money and talent aren't the only things important in sports today. Psychology has more to do with it then we would think.
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Old 05-18-2005, 12:37 PM   #23
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

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Originally Posted by Defensewins
Apples and Oranges...you are comparing Me-Shawn Johnson, who yelled and physically threatened his head coach (on National TV) (on the sideline during a game) to Sean Taylor, who missed a few VOLUNTARY work outs, a BS rookie meeting, and wants a new contract? Not even close.
No, I'm not comparing them at all. I'm simply using the Keyshawn situation as an example of a coach being tough on a player that needs an attitude check. I never said that what ST has done (or failed to do) is the same or even as bad. I'm simply saying that I admire coaches who get tough with players and show them that they need the team more than the team needs them. ST has shown nothing but disdain and a complete lack of respect for the coaching staff. He hasn't even so much as picked up the phone to call his coach back. I'm sorry, but that's immature, disrespectful, and flat-out assinine. Is he as bad as Keyshawn? No. But I, for one, don't think that Gruden's actions should be limited to players who disrespect their coaches publicly. How many of us on this board could act in such a way to our bosses and still have a job tomorrow? Seriously, how many? And these guys are supposed to be professionals? I'm sorry, but some standard of conduct has to accompany the millions of dollars poor underpaid Sean Taylor is getting.

And I don't buy this "voluntary" argument. That's BS. EVERY OTHER teammate who can be there is there right now. If it's so "voluntary", then why doesn't the whole rest of the team have a problem showing up? Come on, he's looking like a punk right now, plain and simple. He's got absolutely NO REASON to not be there with the team. NONE.
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Old 05-18-2005, 12:41 PM   #24
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

If you keep playing hard ball with players and letting them go you create roster turnover which is not good. Just face it having Taylor on the field gives our defense an advantage most teams dont have. I would like to see good faith from the front office and atleast start talking with him on a deal and Ramsey too. Core Redskin Smoot left for a better deal; another team felt he was more valuable We used a number 9 pick to replace him that shows his value. We could have kept him and used number 9 for something else and we would have been made better by that number 9 pick instead of running in place and replacing what we already had. just face it core Redskin talk is nonsense those players work for the NFL as a whole, not any one team and thats reality nowadays and thats the problem.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:07 PM   #25
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

It is a very bad mistake to give any player the false impression that any form of behavior is acceptable as long as he turns in a good performance on the field. I am not one who condones pre-madonas, and feel that performance on and off the field are of equal value.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:43 PM   #26
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

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It is a very bad mistake to give any player the false impression that any form of behavior is acceptable as long as he turns in a good performance on the field. I am not one who condones pre-madonas, and feel that performance on and off the field are of equal value.
Thank God. I was starting to feel all alone here.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:59 PM   #27
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

You're not alone. I also believe that character is more important than performance. If football were an individual sport, it wouldn't be that big of an issue, but you cannot discount how important a good team dynamic is to winning football games. I'd prefer to have someone that wasn't quite as productive individually, but that greatly enhanced the overall team dynamic because of their character. Taylor is showing disrespect to his coach and to his teamates. That sort of selfishness is anathema to a good team dynamic, and should not be tolerated lightly. I'd reserve judgement on benching him until I heard his side of the story and saw his interaction with teamates once he shows up, but I see no reason to believe that what gives every appearance of immaturity and selfishness is going to change overnight. I really hope that Sean turns things around, but if I were Gibbs, I wouldn't be going out of my way to resign Taylor or improve his current contract based on what I've seen so far.

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Old 05-18-2005, 02:31 PM   #28
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longtimefan
It is a very bad mistake to give any player the false impression that any form of behavior is acceptable as long as he turns in a good performance on the field. I am not one who condones pre-madonas, and feel that performance on and off the field are of equal value.
I agree with this, to a point. The whole point of this thread was to determine whether you would BENCH Sean Taylor for missing these VOLUNTARY workouts.

I agree that you can't send the message that all behavior is acceptable as long as you perform well in games. But the question at hand is: exactly how bad has Sean Taylor's behavior been so far?

I say not that bad at all. He has not missed anything mandatory. He has not taken any shots at his QB or coaches, a la TO. All reports suggest he is working his ass off on his own. As long as he comes to mini-camp and training camp in shape, and he works hard there to improve himself, then benching him would be a MAJOR overreaction. It would just be plain stupid.

Now, in contract negotiations, that's where you send the message in my opinion. That's where you sit down and say, "hey, we here at the Washington Redskins reward people who work hard on a voluntary basis. We like players who are with us for all practices, voluntary or not." And you offer a contract accordingly. If Sean Taylor wants to be a part of voluntary sessions, then he'll earn the top dollars in his next contract. If not, then maybe he has a million or two shaved off of what he would have otherwise been offered. And if he walks, fine, he wouldn't have been a good fit for us so long as voluntary practices are that important to team chemistry in Gibbs' eyes.

But you don't bench him (unless he starts skipping mandatory practices). That's just plain moronic. Winning games is still the bottom line.
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Old 05-18-2005, 02:40 PM   #29
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

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But you don't bench him (unless he starts skipping mandatory practices). That's just plain moronic. Winning games is still the bottom line.
Amen - this thread was meant to leave the salary out of it completely.
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Old 05-18-2005, 02:47 PM   #30
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Re: Sean Taylor - What if...

Look, I'm willing to take this at face value, for the time being. We're all wondering how a kid could "burn out" (Portis's term) like this. It's not so hard to understand. He's a Florida guy all his life, plays in Miami in college where there's a strong support system of friends, family and teammates, and then he's thrown into the draft thing, has trouble getting an agent (probably receiving all kinds of contradictory advice from people who don't know sh**; signs a weak deal becuase he doesn't want to miss camp; hears from everyone how he blew it, switches agents, etc.

Then he skips the NFL thing and gets reamed; Gets a whack DWI thing where he's not even drunk, just speeding; he's just moved to a new town--it's cold, no friends, no family, a young guy on his own for the first time, and then it's a tough 6-10 season with the skins where he gets toasted by Vinny against the cowboys.

WInters are cold and nasty in DC if you're from Fla. So he goes home to lick his wounds. Man, it feels good to get away from all that. He needs to recharge the batteries and get his sh** together. He gets a new agent who most likely does say, hey you've got no real leverage, so the only thing you can do is make them miss you a bit by skipping the offseason stuff. And you can get it together for the moment down in FLA. So that's what he does.

(I think this is exactly the wrong thing to do, BTW--he should have toughed it out, bonded with his teammates, and gotten used to DC--made some friends, hang out with Lavar and his 57 plasma screens, etc.)

I don't think it's unbelievable to think that this is what happened, and he'll be back with something to prove in June. If that's that case, of course he should start. He's got to mend some fences, but Coach Williams has played it VERY cool, and that's the guy who matters, really. Unless he skips non-voluntary stuff, he'll be our starting pro-bowl bound kick ass free safety.
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