Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 06-14-2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryssg

skinsguy is right .500 is not a losing season, its not winning either. I think to more adequately describe what you are trying to talk about is 5 straight seasons without a playoff appearance.

We haven't had a good record since the 1990s - that's a pretty solid basis for criticizing the Redskins. The constant coaching turnover, the free agency binges, Danny's arrogance, and the tiff with the Washington Post are pretty good reasons for the media to poke fun at our expense.

I love the Redskins, but we haven't given the media any reason to do anything but doubt us and sneer at our woes. Like Gibbs said last year - "[the Redskins] are not going to silence the critics until we start winning games."

Phinehas · 06-15-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

5 seasons without going over 500 in a row. How exactly does that not make us a perenial loser? Phinehas - the records speak for themselves, the Redskins, for the past 5 years, have been losers.

You just don't get it, Daseal. I'm a fanatic. You can't reason with a fanatic.

The Redskins are not losers no matter what your silly numbers say. What kind of fanatic would I be if I believed otherwise? A reasonable one? Who's ever heard of such a thing?

Quote:

I love the Redskins, but we haven't given the media any reason to do anything but doubt us and sneer at our woes. Like Gibbs said last year - "[the Redskins] are not going to silence the critics until we start winning games."

The sad part is that it appears winning games is required to silence more than just the media critics. It appears it is also required to silence pessimistic supporters masquerading as fans.

--Phin the Fanatic

BrudLee · 06-15-2005, 12:23 PM

Phineas -
As much as I applaud your enthusiam and optimism, vocally expecting more than 5-11 or 6-10 from a team you love doesn't make anyone a "pessimistic supporter masquerading as a fan". When such comments are directed at the members of this site - 99% of whom (sorry, ZackMills

) have shown the passion to argue with, for and about this team weeks before training camp even starts - it shows a lack of respect for your fellow members.

There aren't a whole lot of halfway fans or bandwagon jumpers here ever, especially this time of year. Try to remember that when you question the loyalties of your fellow forum members.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-15-2005, 12:26 PM

So in other words he's saying check yourself before you wreck yourself...

Straight 80s style BEYOTCH.

Phinehas · 06-15-2005, 04:57 PM

BrudLee,

I didn't intend to question anyone's loyalty nor imply anyone was a bandwagon jumper. I don't doubt that Daseal is a consistent Redskins supporter. Everytime I read his/her tag line, however, I can't help but think once again that fanatics do indeed have unrelenting optimism. That is sort of what defines fanaticism. As I wrote elsewhere on the board:

Quote:

The word "fan" is short for "fanatic." It refers to an ardent devotee, and there is at least the implication that this devotion isn't particularly rational. For me, there is also the idea of "keeping the faith" tied into fanaticism. No matter how dark things look, WE BELIEVE! We believe irrationaly. We believe fanatically. And it is this belief that carries us through to eventual success. Our unfailing belief buoys the spirits of the players as we cheer them on at games. For if they don't themselves believe, how shall they ever be victorious? So, for me, unrelenting optimism and fanaticism do indeed go hand-in-hand. Realistic fanaticism just seems rather oxymoronic, doesn't it?

That why the Redskins WILL have a great season this year and WILL go to the playoffs. I BELIEVE!

Foolishness? Perhaps. Fanticism? You better believe it! After all, I AM A FAN!

From the perspective of true fanaticism, I do indeed believe that it stretches the meaning of such for someone to consistently take a pessimistic view. Such a person may still be a loyal supporter, but not all loyal supporters are fanatics. To me, fanatics leave it to media critics to talk about how the Redskins are losers, perrenial or otherwise. As long as Daseal keeps a sig line in place that pretends that fanaticism doesn't imply unrelenting optimism and belief, I hardly think its fair to moderate me for pointing out that, in fact, it does. By doing so, I don't intend to be disrespectful toward anyone, only to provide an alternative view that I believe passionately is more appropriate to the idea of fanaticism. I have nothing at all against Daseal as a person, I just think the sig line is incredibly misleading, and, quite frankly, wrong.

--Phin the Fanatic

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-15-2005, 05:03 PM

Even with the idea that you can't have fanatic without fan, the two are most definitely not one in the same.

A fan is quite simply an ardent devotee. To put it simply, someone who supports a cause enthusiastically.

A fanatic is someone who does the same, but takes this a step further and also supports a cause enthusiastically but rationality goes out the window.

Daseal is a fan, as are most of the people on this site. And by supporting his cause enthusiastically, Daseal proves he is a fan. Even though there is a method to his madness, he often "keeps it real" but nonetheless qualifies for all definitions of a fan.

The people I find on here to be the fanatics are the ones who would still support the Redskins if Snyder himself shot your dog and burned your house to the ground. It's the idea of rationality that separates the two.

Phinehas · 06-15-2005, 05:03 PM

P.S. I'll be happy to change my view on fans and fanaticism the day that Sonny Jurgensen predicts a Redskins' loss for the weekend. It ain't gonna happen, though, 'cause Sonny is a true fanatic.

--Phin the Fanatic

Phinehas · 06-15-2005, 05:14 PM

TMC,

What you call a fan, I call a supporter. They consistently support their team.

"Fan" is just a shortened form of the word "fanatic," so it is difficult for me to see how they can have different meanings. That's like "Fridge" meaning something different that "Refrigerator."

Perhaps it is just semantics, but I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect a fan to possess unrelenting optimism, and I'll continue to express this perspective to balance against those who consistently promote the idea that such a view is unreasonable.

--Phin the Fanatic

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-15-2005, 05:23 PM

Hey, I just go by what the majority view states is a fan and a fanatic (that being the dictionary meanings of the two) because that's the only true way you can really "define" one or the other. It's really not semantics when you look up the definitions. A lot of people can easily say, "Well that's just the dictionary." But you have to have some kind of standard and for me, as well as the majority of the country, that IS the standard, so that is what I base my arguments over definitions on.

You can call them supporters and I can call myself the President of the United States.

wolfeskins · 06-15-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phinehas

That's like "Fridge" meaning something different that "Refrigerator."

when i hear the word "fridge"
i always think of a 350 lb black man with a huge gap between his front teeth and wearing a bears jursey.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-16-2005, 06:03 AM

And running for touchdowns?

Phinehas · 06-16-2005, 07:34 AM

Funny, I think of the exact same thing when I hear "Refrigerator."

--Phin the Fanatic

skinsguy · 06-16-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

The people I find on here to be the fanatics are the ones who would still support the Redskins if Snyder himself shot your dog and burned your house to the ground. It's the idea of rationality that separates the two.

Well, fan or fanatic...it really is all the same. Think about it...I doubt any of us here are just "fans" if we devote each and everyday to this forum posting messages about our beloved team and getting to know other Redskins fans. Your average casual fan probably won't devote that much time and energy. So, in a way, we're all actually fanatics.

Supporting the Redskins through thick and thin isn't irrational - just shows a sign of being devoted to the team.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-16-2005, 10:22 AM

Right. Like I said before, I'm just going with true definitions. There ARE of course levels of fan-dom and the people like us who post on here day in and day out are "better" or more hardcore fans.

I wouldn't consider myself a fanatic because my love isn't irrational. Just like what you quoted above, that type of love for something would be irrational. I would consider myself a hardcore fan, about as hardcore as they get, but not a fanatic.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-16-2005, 10:26 AM

I don't really care, sometimes I just like to put out a well-structured argument.

06-15-2005, 12:23 PM	#48
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media Phineas - As much as I applaud your enthusiam and optimism, vocally expecting more than 5-11 or 6-10 from a team you love doesn't make anyone a "pessimistic supporter masquerading as a fan". When such comments are directed at the members of this site - 99% of whom (sorry, ZackMills ) have shown the passion to argue with, for and about this team weeks before training camp even starts - it shows a lack of respect for your fellow members. There aren't a whole lot of halfway fans or bandwagon jumpers here ever, especially this time of year. Try to remember that when you question the loyalties of your fellow forum members. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

06-15-2005, 12:26 PM	#49
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media So in other words he's saying check yourself before you wreck yourself... Straight 80s style BEYOTCH. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-15-2005, 05:03 PM	#51
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media Even with the idea that you can't have fanatic without fan, the two are most definitely not one in the same. A fan is quite simply an ardent devotee. To put it simply, someone who supports a cause enthusiastically. A fanatic is someone who does the same, but takes this a step further and also supports a cause enthusiastically but rationality goes out the window. Daseal is a fan, as are most of the people on this site. And by supporting his cause enthusiastically, Daseal proves he is a fan. Even though there is a method to his madness, he often "keeps it real" but nonetheless qualifies for all definitions of a fan. The people I find on here to be the fanatics are the ones who would still support the Redskins if Snyder himself shot your dog and burned your house to the ground. It's the idea of rationality that separates the two. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-15-2005, 05:03 PM	#52
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media P.S. I'll be happy to change my view on fans and fanaticism the day that Sonny Jurgensen predicts a Redskins' loss for the weekend. It ain't gonna happen, though, 'cause Sonny is a true fanatic. --Phin the Fanatic

06-15-2005, 05:14 PM	#53
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media TMC, What you call a fan, I call a supporter. They consistently support their team. "Fan" is just a shortened form of the word "fanatic," so it is difficult for me to see how they can have different meanings. That's like "Fridge" meaning something different that "Refrigerator." Perhaps it is just semantics, but I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect a fan to possess unrelenting optimism, and I'll continue to express this perspective to balance against those who consistently promote the idea that such a view is unreasonable. --Phin the Fanatic

06-15-2005, 05:23 PM	#54
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media Hey, I just go by what the majority view states is a fan and a fanatic (that being the dictionary meanings of the two) because that's the only true way you can really "define" one or the other. It's really not semantics when you look up the definitions. A lot of people can easily say, "Well that's just the dictionary." But you have to have some kind of standard and for me, as well as the majority of the country, that IS the standard, so that is what I base my arguments over definitions on. You can call them supporters and I can call myself the President of the United States. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-16-2005, 06:03 AM	#56
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media And running for touchdowns? __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-16-2005, 07:34 AM	#57
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media Funny, I think of the exact same thing when I hear "Refrigerator." --Phin the Fanatic

06-16-2005, 10:22 AM	#59
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media Right. Like I said before, I'm just going with true definitions. There ARE of course levels of fan-dom and the people like us who post on here day in and day out are "better" or more hardcore fans. I wouldn't consider myself a fanatic because my love isn't irrational. Just like what you quoted above, that type of love for something would be irrational. I would consider myself a hardcore fan, about as hardcore as they get, but not a fanatic. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-16-2005, 10:26 AM	#60
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media I don't really care, sometimes I just like to put out a well-structured argument. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

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Further Proof of an Anti Redskins Bias in the National Media

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