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Old 07-13-2005, 01:36 PM   #31
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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Originally Posted by illdefined
that makes sense, and sorry i missed the discussion when it happened, but what was wrong with Hasslebeck, who'd been here through all of it?
Tim Hasselbeck is a hell of a nice guy, who is pretty bright. he also has a below average arm, both strength and accuracy-wise. During his brief period of starts here thanks to injuries, he completed 53.7% of his passes, and had a QB rating of 63.6. That's not something to build on. He's also 27 years old - that's by no means an old man, but it falls awkwardly between young gun and wily veteran.
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:43 PM   #32
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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Your missing the point, and the point is none of those players were drafted higher than the 3rd rd, they were projects that Beathard took a chance on that they could be developed, a far cry from what we gave up to get Campbell, you also can't compare Gibbs first tenure to today's NFL we now have a salary cap to contend with, you do not give up what we gave up for a first rd QB to make him a project, period!

Basically if Gibbs had any confidence in Ramsey there is no way we take Campbell where we did, what is the point? To have 2 bonified starters on our roster to watch Campbell just sit and eat up our salary cap? Tell me what's the plan for Campbell if Gibbs believes in Ramsey? I would like to know the thinking behind that one? As I said from day 1 the Campbell pick was just plain stupid no matter how you look at it.

If Gibbs believes in Ramsey than all he should have been looking for is a #2 backup to groom, instead we now have neither, Campbell is 3 season's away, and Brunell another Gibbs move well we all saw how that panned out.

My question is this, what happens if Ramsey goes down this season? Does anyone think Campbell can step in? Don't make me laugh at that one, so I guess we are 1 hit away from Brunell and a high 1st rd draft pick next year, oh wait we don't have one, WONDERFUL!
offiss -
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Campbell isn't three years from being ready - I don't think any player is that far. if he isn't ready to play next year, he likely won't ever be. To arbitrarily have him ready in 2008 seems capricious. (I just found a thesaurus).

To say that 2005 is Ramsey's year, despite no history of success (and I'm a huge Ramsey fan) and not be prepared to be wrong would be grossly irresponsible. Brunell will be gone next year, which gives you a choice of Ramsey (whether he's successful or not), a free agent (who will have to adjust to a new offense), or a rookie (who will need to learn not only the offense, but adjust to the speed of the league) - unless you draft a player to learn for a year. The cost was high, true, but if Ramsey can't make the leap this year, what is the alternative?
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:50 PM   #33
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

I echo what most have said here in regards to Smoot, that he was good his whole career but Williams just raised his profile.. Also I think that he benefitted (at least in the media sense) from being the 2nd best CB available this offseason behind Samari Rolle. If we kept him then I think he would have been regarded, media wise, as part of a 'solid but unspectacular secondary.' Media types ALWAYS accentuate the negative, it's how they keep their jobs.. I am ok with Harris/Rogers/Wilds as long as Springs stays healthy and Taylor stays focused.

With Ramsey however I tend to agree with the dissentors.. While I don't think Gibbs hates Ramsey as has been insinuated, I don't think he beleives in him either. Two offseasons in a row he has sought to upgrade the position. If you are 100% behind your 26 yr old starter and believe your 34 yr old backup can still play effectively, you don't trade 3 picks for a rookie QB in the 1st round. From all indications it was a smart move since Campbell has impressed thusfar but it's still not the move of a coach who is confident at that position. For those who like to cite the Chargers Brees/Rivers situation, anyone who claims the Chargers are 'happy' to have 2 young talented QB under contract (who are probably taking up close to $10 million in cap space) and on the roster is misguided.. It's better to have a QB you are sure is the future and a solid veteran backup. I don't buy Gibbs assertion 'you get the best football players out there' regarding Campbell when there were other holes that could have been better served by that pick..
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:51 PM   #34
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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Originally Posted by BrudLee
Tim Hasselbeck is a hell of a nice guy, who is pretty bright. he also has a below average arm, both strength and accuracy-wise. During his brief period of starts here thanks to injuries, he completed 53.7% of his passes, and had a QB rating of 63.6. That's not something to build on. He's also 27 years old - that's by no means an old man, but it falls awkwardly between young gun and wily veteran.
i see; thought he was younger. well, on the bright side, Brunell no longer has an excuse to STAY.

Coach Williams certainly has is work cut out for him this season, he already made miracles last year with little, now he has even less to work with. Wish we could have helped him out more in this year's draft (god knows it's the least he deserves) and i hope both our coaches are still HERE when Campbell finally has a chance to make a difference.
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:58 PM   #35
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

I've also noticed that in all of the preseason prognostications there is no mention of Barrow being healthy (according to doctors) and how there should be minimal if any dropoff at MLB if he is able to play.. I honestly think these things are typed in May and they just post them throughout the summer..
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:00 PM   #36
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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To say that 2005 is Ramsey's year, despite no history of success (and I'm a huge Ramsey fan) and not be prepared to be wrong would be grossly irresponsible. Brunell will be gone next year, which gives you a choice of Ramsey (whether he's successful or not), a free agent (who will have to adjust to a new offense), or a rookie (who will need to learn not only the offense, but adjust to the speed of the league) - unless you draft a player to learn for a year. The cost was high, true, but if Ramsey can't make the leap this year, what is the alternative?
yup, the more scenarios we hear, the less faith we see Gibbs has in Ramsey. 2nd or 3rd round is being prudent. 1st round over major needs is being straight doubtful.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:04 PM   #37
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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I've also noticed that in all of the preseason prognostications there is no mention of Barrow being healthy (according to doctors) and how there should be minimal if any dropoff at MLB if he is able to play.. I honestly think these things are typed in May and they just post them throughout the summer..
just can't deny Barrow's age. it's already proven in his slow healing - that's why he's been totally written off. sigh.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:09 PM   #38
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

Despite the fact Gibbs has named Ramsey the starter for the 05 season is "not" a true indication of the fact he has the utmost confidence in him. He was almost forced to remove Brunell from the starting lineup because the team was off to such a poor start. We must remember that Ramsey was here when Gibbs arrived, was not a QB of his choosing. If Brunell is not going to be here after the 05 season, and no one knows just how the future is going to pan out for Ramsey, within a two year period of time we could verey easily be down to Campbell which in all probability has figured into the thinking when we drafted Cambbell. We have no idea what or where Ramsey will be in the next two years, so it's not wise to assume he will be here regardless of what kind of season he has. To some of us dismay, it's difficult to get a true guage on the future of the QB situation until different senerioes play themselves out. However for the short term, and with what we have, the success of the team this year and beyond will boil down to the play of our QB's and the offensive line. I'm hoping that whoever is the QB we will have success, and win games. When we do that I think much of the skepticism surrounding the various elements of the team will subside.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:20 PM   #39
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

I really like Ramsey and think he can really shine in this league. And I know a lot of us complain about Gibbs not giving Ramsey a fair shake. But he does see Ramsey a lot more than we do, and he sees Campbell.

So maybe he is seeing something that we don't see. Maybe Campbell will ultimately prove to be the better choice longterm. Only time will tell.

By the way, my brother said he saw Campbell and Carlos Rogers the other day. I can't remember where. Says Campbell is a monster, and really ripped. He just towers over Rogers.
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:28 PM   #40
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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Old 07-13-2005, 02:43 PM   #41
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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I really like Ramsey and think he can really shine in this league. And I know a lot of us complain about Gibbs not giving Ramsey a fair shake. But he does see Ramsey a lot more than we do, and he sees Campbell.

So maybe he is seeing something that we don't see. Maybe Campbell will ultimately prove to be the better choice longterm. Only time will tell.
yeah, but that's exactly how my unquestioning faith in The Gibbs got it's first-ever question: What Did He See In Brunell (before the season AND then during)?

and until the Skins put up more Ws, we can NOT expect or demand ANY positive forecasts or write up on the Redskins. not only do we have to accept our post Snyder rep but embrace it. and the team needs to use it. the Skins are the NFC east underdogs with absolutely everything to prove. (and to the biggest, most passionate fanbase in the league)
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:53 PM   #42
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

Many posts since my last one.

You make a good point when you say that the amount we gave up to get Campbell is an indication that Ramsey's days are numbered. But I don't think that is necessarily a knock on Ramsey, I think it's more of a vote of confidence for Campbell.

Gibbs thought highly enough of the young man to give up several draft picks. But despite thinking that highly of him, he still names Ramsey as the starter. Gibbs may like Campbell's chances to lead the team in the long term a lot better than he likes Ramsey's, so in that respect you're right. But for this season, which is all I'm saying, this season Ramsey is the starter.

The argument against the Chargers doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sure, their payroll has $10 million budgeted towards a couple QBs. Is that a misallocation of resources? Yeah, maybe. But they were friggin 12-4. And that's the bottom line.

I'll gladly pay 2 QBs a lot of money if it means we're back in contention.

Also, Gibbs may not share your view that the team had more pressing needs. Many argue that WR was a big need and DE was a big need, and we had all these needs. It seems to me that Gibbs didn't think so. Maybe he's wrong, who knows. It's certainly fine to question the logic. But if the team performs well this year despite these "holes" in the roster, people should be prepared to change their tune.
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:16 PM   #43
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

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Many posts since my last one.

You make a good point when you say that the amount we gave up to get Campbell is an indication that Ramsey's days are numbered. But I don't think that is necessarily a knock on Ramsey, I think it's more of a vote of confidence for Campbell.

Gibbs thought highly enough of the young man to give up several draft picks. But despite thinking that highly of him, he still names Ramsey as the starter. Gibbs may like Campbell's chances to lead the team in the long term a lot better than he likes Ramsey's, so in that respect you're right. But for this season, which is all I'm saying, this season Ramsey is the starter.

The argument against the Chargers doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sure, their payroll has $10 million budgeted towards a couple QBs. Is that a misallocation of resources? Yeah, maybe. But they were friggin 12-4. And that's the bottom line.

I'll gladly pay 2 QBs a lot of money if it means we're back in contention.

Also, Gibbs may not share your view that the team had more pressing needs. Many argue that WR was a big need and DE was a big need, and we had all these needs. It seems to me that Gibbs didn't think so. Maybe he's wrong, who knows. It's certainly fine to question the logic. But if the team performs well this year despite these "holes" in the roster, people should be prepared to change their tune.
Not to be contrary simply to be contrary, but.. The logic of 'he just thought highly enough of him' argument doesn't make sense in the NFL today.. If you are confident that the QB you have is your QB of the present and near future, why give up 3 picks to draft another one? With the cap and roster limits (which were not a consideration the first time around) you don't go and strengthen a position where you already have your guy.

The Chargers correleation was if they were convinced that Brees was the guy (like if Gibbs were convinced that Ramsey was the guy) they wouldn't have drafted Rivers (and the Redskins wouldn't have drafted Campbell). Yes their record was great last year, but now they have a large amount of their cap allocated to one position. I'm sure they are happy with their record but if they knew the light would come on for Brees they would have gone another direction with that pick rather than essentially waste it. Rivers barely played last year and will likely barely play this year so they have a player they are paying #5 overall QB money to who is stuck behind a 28 yr old Pro Bowler.. If the light comes on for Ramsey, they have spent 3 picks on a player who won't see the field until mid next season at the earliest. The bad thing about the pick is it only works out if Ramsey falters. You can't cut/trade a 27 yr old performing QB for a rookie just because you drafted his replacement.
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:39 PM   #44
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

Hi guys,

Only my 5th or 6th post, so I'm still green here. But I agree with one of the earlier comments that picking Campbell was an indictment on Brunell not Ramsey. Ramsey, as we all know, has some wonderful tools. But to his defense, he's been in a couple of different systems so far. I think the big thing working in his favor this year is continuity of coaches and schemes.

I think the team will benefit this year from the "Piereces" that are still here. A la Khary Campbell, Joe Salave (sp), and Ron Warner. In my opinion these role players will emerge as bonifide Redskins of the future and add a lot to the team this year!!
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:47 PM   #45
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Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

Firstdown I would like to clarify to some degree exactly what I meant when I said we cannot be sure of what or where Ramsey will be in the next two years. I am not throughly convinced of the fact that even if Ramsey is playing good it's not a matter of whether Gibbs will get rid of him as opposed as to whether he will want to stay here. I need to be convinced that the drafting of Campbell was not for any other reason than to play, and to play for the Redskins. I can't get out of my mind how Ramsey reacted last year when Brunell was brought in to compete with him for the starting QB job. Based on that reaction alone I'm left to wonder just what his intentions "might" be in the not so distant future. It could be that he will once again not welcome the competition (which will always be) and express the desire to move on. This may not be the case, but we must understand that somewhere in the future there has to be a place for Campbell.
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