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Maybe a Turnaround?

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Old 07-14-2005, 08:44 AM   #16
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne5
I've never heard ST or Ronsenhaus say it. Maybe I missed the news article that had these quotes. As far as I know, it's all speculation from the media due to the fact that ST never explained his absences.
I agree. SportsCurmudgeon, I have no idea where you're getting this. Gibbs even said that he doesn't believe Sean's absence is due to contract issues.

He's just a head-case. I hope he stops being a head-case for sure. But if he misses non-mandatory workouts, I won't hold it against him. As long as he makes it to camp and plays hard this season, I'll be happy.

I'd also like to see him avoid getting into situations like the one he's in now. From everything I'm reading, he's pretty likely to be acquitted of the charges outright; but he shouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place. He's got to hang around the right people.

But as long as he is in camp, gets in shape quickly, and plays hard this year, I will have no beef. If he does those things, he'll be a serious menace in our secondary, you can take that to the bank.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:22 AM   #17
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardskin2982
taylor's not a true redskin. Would you be...
Please remember not everyone grew up loving the skins like us fans. First He's drafted under contriversy, then he sign's a contract many in the league say he got stiffed, then he's been persecuted by the DC media since his arrival. Everyones mad at him cause he choses not to speak. He comes from Miami were he's treated like a god to DC were he's treated like a punk kid on a sorry team. if u haven't noticed 40% of the dc area media act like their cowboys, Giant, or Eagle fans (hate to say it)
No offense, but cry me a river. First off, he got a guaranteed $7.2 million signing bonus before he ever stepped on the field (which is over $1.5 million more than Ed Reed has gotten paid all his years combined, including this year's salary under his current contract). Second, the media was not harder on ST than they've been on any other star athelete in DC. Missing rookie events, getting pulled over for drunk driving and getting arrested for aggrevated assault with a firearm will tend to bring some negative publicity unto yourself. Third, the only controversey surrounding his draft pick was KWII spouting his big mouth off about how he was "promised" by the skins to be drafted. There wasn't any controversey surrounding Taylor being selected. The pick was immediately embraced by most fans and the team. Fourth, the players and fans tried connecting with ST and making him feel at home immediately. ST just decided to spit in their faces and spend more time hanging with his friends in Miami, rather than attending voluntary camps where he should have been like every other Redskins player. And Fifth, and most importantly, he's a professional athelete being paid to do a job. He doesn't have to grow up loving the skins like us..........but when he gets paid millions of dollars to play a game for our team, I expect some loyalty and some professionalism.

Quote:
I say suppport him as a team and organization and he'll become a true redskin. There have been no real true redskins since Snyder has been the owner.
I would argue that Arrington, Samuels and Jansen are "true" long-term Redskins. Of course that's up for debate and everyone has their opinion on the matter, but, to me, I feel good saying those guys are skins.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:51 AM   #18
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Let's say this whole gun thing never happened with ST.

While I don't see it happening now after that debacle, would anyone have been surprised if ST decided to hold out for a new contract?

If you say yes you're seriously delusional. Speculation or not, there is some truth to it.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:24 AM   #19
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
If you say yes you're seriously delusional. Speculation or not, there is some truth to it.
Where are the quotes though? Everyone seems to know that he is unhappy with his contract, even without him saying as much.

If there was some truth to it, it wouldn't be speculation, it would be fact.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:32 AM   #20
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

You can blame the (probably liberal) media for the "misconception" that Taylor wants a new deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESPN
Taylor, who wants a new contract, has been working out in Miami despite pleas from coach Joe Gibbs to join the team in voluntary workouts at their home base in suburban Washington. He signed a seven-year, $18 million deal as the No. 5 overall draft pick in the 2004 draft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaPost
Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs expressed frustration over the absence of Santana Moss and Sean Taylor from voluntary offseason workouts. Gibbs said he believed that Moss's absence was related to his desire for a new contract. Gibbs confirmed last week that team officials had held discussions with Taylor to hear his contract concerns, but at this point the Redskins do not appear inclined to greatly alter that deal.
Just google the phrase "Sean Taylor new contract". There will be no shortsge of links.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:33 AM   #21
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

I'm not saying there are hard facts that he wants a new deal, but there was enough talk from both sides during the off-season to indicate that a new contract was at least an issue at hand that would need to be formally discussed at some point.

He skipped all the off-season functions and didn't return any calls from the team. Maybe he is just a weirdo who wanted to get away from football for a while, or maybe he was beginning to position himself for a training camp holdout. I think it would be a bit naive to dismiss the latter so quickly.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:40 AM   #22
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
I'm not saying there are hard facts that he wants a new deal, but there was enough talk from both sides during the off-season to indicate that a new contract was at least an issue at hand that would need to be formally discussed at some point.

He skipped all the off-season functions and didn't return any calls from the team. Maybe he is just a weirdo who wanted to get away from football for a while, or maybe he was beginning to position himself for a training camp holdout. I think it would be a bit naive to dismiss the latter so quickly.
I'm not dismissing it. I just think that some people are putting too much emphasis on nothing more than speculation.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:13 PM   #23
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Don't get me wrong, I agree much has been made out of what is basically just speculation.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:37 PM   #24
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

diehardskin 2982:

If Jack Kent Cooke comes back to reclaim the Redskins, he'll need to have Shirley MacLaine channeling for him. Much as some of us old-timers would like to see that happen, it ain't gonna happen.


I have said all along that Taylor would be in camp - even before the "unfortunate gun incident"; I wasn't sure he'd be there on the first day of camp, but he'd be there. Now I think he'll be there bright and early on the first morning that camp begins.

I've said all along that he will not spend any time in jail - even before the other gentlemen involved here refused to turn state's evidence against Taylor.

I can't give you any quotes recently from Sean Taylor about anything because Taylor hasn't talked to the media very much - even less to them than to Joe Gibbs it seems.

But if you think Taylor's happy with his contract you forget how he reacted to KW II's comments that he got screwed in signing that deal about 48 hours after the ink was dry. And you forget how he's been hearing from the NFLPA and the media and probably from his new agent that this was not the best deal he could have signed. His contract is for a lot more money than I will make in my lifetime, but he stood to make less than some people drafted after him and that is an ego-bruise. Most pro athletes can't take ego-bruises very well; I suspect that Sean Taylor is very similar to his compatriots in that dimension.
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:02 PM   #25
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon
But if you think Taylor's happy with his contract you forget how he reacted to KW II's comments that he got screwed in signing that deal about 48 hours after the ink was dry. And you forget how he's been hearing from the NFLPA and the media and probably from his new agent that this was not the best deal he could have signed. His contract is for a lot more money than I will make in my lifetime, but he stood to make less than some people drafted after him and that is an ego-bruise. Most pro athletes can't take ego-bruises very well; I suspect that Sean Taylor is very similar to his compatriots in that dimension.
I'll bet he doesn't stand to make any less money than any other safety taken after him though. I'm just saying, something has to be said for the fact that he's a safety and not a TE, WR, RB, QB or any other position that typically warrants a huge contract. I'm one of the few that still isn't convinced he got as terrible a deal as people like to claim.

Putting that aside, however, I absolutely agree that he's not happy with his contract anymore (mostly because he already got the most favorable portion of that contract paid to him in guaranteed, up-front money), and if not for his recent "legal issues", I would have fully expected a camp holdout.
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Old 07-15-2005, 02:10 AM   #26
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

yes I know Jack is dead I live in the area and been a fan all my life... I was joking on that one curmudgeon. As for the issue of Taylors contract the only person who knows if he is upset about the contract is Taylor. The speculation now is just the media and his agent. I've heard it said that when ever an agent get a new client, he feels that the old current contract null and void because otherwise he doesn't get paid.

Earlier someone said that they felt Jansen, Samuels, and Arrington true skins... This may be true but who would u blame if any of these players left, them or the team. Last year I remember many of you were calling for Samuel's trade to draft Robert Gallery. Arrington has lashed out publicly at the team. If he or Jansen doesn't come back to their true form from injury, do you still consider them true skins, or excess weight needed to be droped from the roster.

I am personally still a Sean Taylor, but until our team shows true loyalty to a player I feel the last true skin was Darrel Green. I know alot of you may dissagree because of Samuels new contract but I want to see if he'll still be here in 2 years or become a cap casualty
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:37 AM   #27
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diehardskin2982
Earlier someone said that they felt Jansen, Samuels, and Arrington true skins... This may be true but who would u blame if any of these players left, them or the team. Last year I remember many of you were calling for Samuel's trade to draft Robert Gallery. Arrington has lashed out publicly at the team. If he or Jansen doesn't come back to their true form from injury, do you still consider them true skins, or excess weight needed to be droped from the roster.

I am personally still a Sean Taylor, but until our team shows true loyalty to a player I feel the last true skin was Darrel Green. I know alot of you may dissagree because of Samuels new contract but I want to see if he'll still be here in 2 years or become a cap casualty
Who would I blame if they left? I guess it depends on the circumstances under which they are leaving.

I guess I just don't see the point in presenting a host of "what if's" and "maybes". You made the statement that we've never had a true redskin since Snyder took over. I presented three players who, at least for right now, looking at everything that has happened so far in their careers, appear to be true Redskins. Samuels and Arrington signed long term contracts with the team without even testing the free agent market (can't say the same for Smoot and Pierce). Arrington's statements were, I believe, out of frustration from being injured and not healing as quickly as he wanted to (just my opinion). At no point has Arrington ever asked or demanded to be traded (ala Coles). He's never held out for a new contract. He's said time and time again he'd love to stay here his entire career. Just because certain fans (and I'm definitely not one of them) wanted to trade Samuels to pick Gallery doesn't make him any less of a true Redskin. As for injuries: What if ANY high-priced player in the NFL gets injured and can't get back to 100%? Of course the team has to cut them or renegotiate a lower salary. If Peyton Manning had a career ending injury, or an injury he couldn't come back from to be 100% again, he'd be "excess weight" that the Colts would have to cut too, but that doesn't make him any less of a true Colt right now, does it?

As for the team needing to show more loyalty, I'm big on loyalty from both the players and the team. But I'd argue that the Skins organization treats their players about as well as any other organization in the league. I mean really, when you think about it, they have a history of (and are, in fact, notorious for) rewarding their players very hansomely when it comes to contract time. Nobody would ever call the Skins stingy with their contracts (unlike, say, the Eagles who have camp holdouts almost every year........not to say the Eagles are doing anything wrong, but overall Skins players are paid more than Eagles players).

You've got Sean "Meathead" Taylor (sorry SC, I'm borrowing that term from you) who finds some form of trouble at every turn. How do the Skins handle him and his "Jackassery" (that one's mine)? EVEN AFTER ignoring his coach's calls for months and simply not showing up at voluntary workouts for absolutely no legitimate reason, the Skins first action is to excuse him from mini-camps to let him try to get his legal issues sorted out, and to call him, yet again, to finally have a conversation about what Sean Taylor needs to get back on track.

Ask the players what they think about Joe Gibbs, and a very large majority are going to tell you that they love the guy, that he's the nicest, most respectful guy they've ever met, that they have nothing but respect for him........I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of locker rooms in the NFL that aren't quite so high on their coach and don't feel like they are being treated like professionals by their coaching staff.

Then you look at guys who have had fairly devastating injuries, and how quick are the Skins to cut those guys loose? Trotter signed a big contract, then tore up his knee. The skins gave him a couple seasons to heal and get back on the field before deciding to cut him because it just wasn't working out. They didn't have to be as patient with him as they were. Brandon Noble had a devastating knee injury that many thought could be career threatening. He's still here, trying to get back to form how many seasons later, and the Skins have no intention on trying to cut him or renegotiate his salary (from what I've heard). Mike Barrow was out all last year with a knee injury, and things weren't looking great for this year either. Still, they did not cut Barrow, they are being patient with his recovery, and the simple fact that he's been showing progress lately has kept him a Redskin. I don't believe there would be many teams as patient and understanding with Barrow as the Skins have been.

So I guess that's all the long way of saying I think we do have some true Redskins on our team right now, and that I don't think the Redskins need to do anything more than they've been doing to treat their players right.
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:00 AM   #28
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

PSUSkinsfan21:

Feel free to employ the "Meathead" label to Sean Taylor whenever you think it is appropriate. I never bothered to copyright it; it wasn't worth it.
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:47 PM   #29
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon
PSUSkinsfan21:

Feel free to employ the "Meathead" label to Sean Taylor whenever you think it is appropriate. I never bothered to copyright it; it wasn't worth it.
Thanks SC .......you know I will.:thumb:
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:12 PM   #30
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Re: Maybe a Turnaround?

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Originally Posted by Riggo44
I think that he will show up and have a pro bowl season. Kobe Braynt played pretty good for the Lakers 2 years ago when he was going through his legal troubles. Sean will do the same. I bet he will get off like Kobe did too.
Riggo44...........NEVER EVER EVER compare a Redskin with a (F)Laker......

I'm a Redskin and Spurs Fan and Laker Hater................
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