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do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

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Old 07-21-2005, 09:56 AM   #16
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

This is the nature of football. How often are trades ever made? Not often compared to other sports. Why? Because the nature of the salary cap and team's reluctance to make moves based on chemistry reasons means it is difficult to get a trade worked out. It is common in the NFL for teams to allow players to seek trades such as in the case of 50/50. The reason they do this is because teams know that with the cap if a team is looking to get rid of a guy they're 95% going to simply release him when it becomes advantageous. Therefore the only way to actually consumate a trade is to get the player to agree to a long term deal so it is in the other team's interest to actually trade for the player rather waiting for him to hit the market and then be faced with competition. To get a long term deal the player has to be involved and it is in no way in the player's benefit to stay quiet about this. There is no "better way" to deal with this issue.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:59 AM   #17
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Its sad to say but our best senario is that a teem has an injury to a WR very early in training camp. That may give use some negotiating power. I would not wish injury on anyone.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:59 AM   #18
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

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Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.
Wow! those are points no one has ever brought up before! I am surprised we hadn't thought of them.
I don't know if I'll ever get tired of hearing how bad our front office is. I mean the world wouldn't be complete without some know-it-all proclaiming that he thinks we should have handled something differently. 20-20 is hindsight and the decisions made are counter to the decisions made in the past. Note: we haven't won a playoff game since 1991...maybe the decisions in the past we pretty poor and the new dirction is the right way.
As for why we signed Barrow:
Because Barrow had missed like 1 game in the last 8 years and was NOT A INJURY RISK when signed. His situation simply turned out to be bad luck. He was a stud Pro Bowl linebacker with no injury history to speak of. It was a quality signing that didn't work out. The 6 year deal was actually more like a 3 year deal and they got him for decent money. They could not reasonably expected him to never play when he never had any injuries before. Just plain old bad luck.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:05 AM   #19
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Here is one problem that our front office created and could have avoided, that contributed to this situation:
Given our salary cap situation, we do not have enough space to sign our rookies. We have to get rid of someone to sign our rookies and this telegraphs to all the other teams that we HAVE to get rid of someone.
So other teams will just sit back and wait for these players and get them for free; rather offer up valuable draft picks.
We have to dump the salary of RG and MB. Every team in the NFL knows this. We will not anything for them.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:11 AM   #20
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Before last year Barrow was an iron man and the guy that Williams trusted to come in and run his D.

In hindsight it's easy to say it's a move that shouldn't have been made, but until crystal balls are used as a evaluation tool stuff like this is going to happen unfortunately.

Instead of always focusing on the negative, let's look at the other side here. Williams must be pretty confident in the guys competing for the MLB spot if he's willing to dump a healthy Barrow.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:11 AM   #21
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites.
Really?
Then by all means lets make sure the skins change everything they do so that aren't the laughing stocks on all these websites. I mean that's what they should care about right? Being the laughing stock of websites. Yeam that proves they need a GM. I love how everyone is bashing the decisions from this off season and they haven't even played a game yet. I think we ought to implement a new rule that there can be no bitching and moaning unless there is proven reason to. I am not saying that they have done perfectly this off season. I am saying that not one of us has any idea how these moves will pan out. If we make the damn super bowl will all you shut the f$%^ up? Actually if we make the super bowl will you apologize for being idiots? Not saying you are idiots but you could turn out to be totally wrong(making you and idot) or right(making you a genius) but unless you are psychic then stop proclaiming we need to fix a problem we don;t even knwo we if we have.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:15 AM   #22
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins
Here is one problem that our front office created and could have avoided, that contributed to this situation:
Given our salary cap situation, we do not have enough space to sign our rookies. We have to get rid of someone to sign our rookies and this telegraphs to all the other teams that we HAVE to get rid of someone.
So other teams will just sit back and wait for these players and get them for free; rather offer up valuable draft picks.
We have to dump the salary of RG and MB. Every team in the NFL knows this. We will not anything for them.
How could they have avoided this? Again...not saying I disagree but I am going to start policing statements like this. If you think they should have done something differently then you need to have a reasonable alternative. Simply bitching and moaning because something didn't work out perfectly is pointless. Things often don't work out perfectly in the NFL. Lets have a good discussion on what SHOULD have happened rather than complaining simply because you didn't like the result. Maybe the result was unavoidable.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:18 AM   #23
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:22 AM   #24
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?
Exactly! I really think we ought to give some benefit of doubt to a guy like Gibbs. He has earned the right to be trusted for now. We have probably had the best on paper offseasons just about every year in the last decade and it never worked out. For once we don't have a great off season on paper(according to many 'critics' and fans) and everyone is going nuts. What could possibily be worse than what we've done in the past? Give them a chance before we skewer them please!
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:28 AM   #25
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

personally i think we should cut our losses and move on. if any team offered a 7th round pick for barrow, i would take it. it's better than releasing him and getting nothing. same with gardner. because every other team knows they can get gardner without giving up a draft pick. but in the case someone will give up a draft pick, take it. stop all this, we want at least a fifth round pick for him. it's obvious they aren't gonna get one.
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:34 AM   #26
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?
Preach on brother Matty! You'd think we were the only team to ever allow our players to seek trades. It happens all the time around the league
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:18 AM   #27
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Sometimes members on this site get into a doomsday mentality where mass hysteria (albeit minimal) takes over. Every move in the '04 off-season that was applauded by the media i.e. Brunnell and Barow has YET to pay off. Conversely, the two moves Gibbs and co. were criticized for; signing Springs who had durability issues and Cornelius who had motivational issues paid off far more than anyone could have guessed. To our chagrin Barrow has not been able to repeat his performance from his days as a Giant. But we shouldn't laude the FO for this. Free agency is a crap shoot, if it was a sure thing then we'd reap more rewards from our off season spending. The media, like Len Pasquerelli, sometimes dictates the discourse (and displeasure) of the Redskins motives to its fans. Rather than bemoaning a poor decision we often lose sight that we have an owner who is willing to pay to make his team audibly better rather than staying pat. I guess what I'm trying to say is that rather than being a pessimist let's have a "wait and see" approach before we start criticizing the FO.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:33 AM   #28
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.
I couldn't agree more! We need a real G.M.
The Snyder/Cerrato duo has been mostly bad. As you point out they did some good, but mostly bad.
Talent evaluation is the main problem. Our lower round picks is where a G.M. makes his money and we have done terribly in that department.
Beathard/Casserly made great teams with lower round picks and cast offs.
On our current roster our only good players are the top pick/can't miss guys like Lavar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Sean Taylor, Patrick Ramsey, Clinton Portis and John Jansen were all first and second round picks. We have very few if any low round or undrafted players that that is playing great.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:44 AM   #29
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

One could argue about the GM (and lord knows we have!!) but why is Barrow thing so bad? My impression is that Barrow and his agent ASKED for permission to seek a trade, and it was granted. SHould they have said no? Why? If the guy thinks he has value, why not? Same with Gardner--we're going to release him, sure. But maybe, before we do, some team is going to lose a WR in training ca,p to injury, and wont be able to take the chance of not getting Rod. They'll trade. Or not, and then we're where we were anyway.

How does this make us a laughing stock, blah balh blah?

As for the FO, I agree with Matty. Let's see it on the field. And Gibbs is only going into his SECOND year as president. It takes time to fix things. Are we in cap hell? No. Short of Taylor (is it the FOs fault he did what he was alleged to do?) and Arrington (Can you say POSTONS?), things seem to be falling into place IMHO.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:46 AM   #30
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
How could they have avoided this? Again...not saying I disagree but I am going to start policing statements like this. If you think they should have done something differently then you need to have a reasonable alternative. Simply bitching and moaning because something didn't work out perfectly is pointless. Things often don't work out perfectly in the NFL. Lets have a good discussion on what SHOULD have happened rather than complaining simply because you didn't like the result. Maybe the result was unavoidable.
Bitching and moaning? LOL What a joke.
I just pointed out a problem, how is that bitching and moaning?

Here is a solution to the problem I pointed out:
We should never have traded Coles away at a cost $7m in cap cost. Plus signing the replacement Moss for $?M more in cap space. The replacement of one player (Coles) ended up costing us some $8M in cap money. Our rookies require only about $3M in cap space. we would never have had this problem. problem solved!

While Coles voiced his dipleasure at last years offense, Coles has never been a bad attitude player and there is NO indication he would have been one if he stayed. To say he would have been is speculation. John Riggins was a huge distraction and held out an entire season because he wanted to be traded. riggo came back and won a Superbowl for us.
Players and coaches disagree all the time, getting rid of Coles was drastic and at a big cost.
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