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do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

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Old 07-21-2005, 09:12 PM   #76
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

The way the Redskins were talking Barrow up in mini-camp, and rehab programs, I thought he was FINALLY healthy and they would use him in the line-up, guess it was all just PRE-TRADE HYPE to get some team interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-21-2005, 10:59 PM   #77
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

schneed10 I partially agree with you. I think this position of president that Gibbs has now is overwhelming for him. He is the Face of the skins. He has responsibility for everything, and has to watch over everything. He has never done this before, and I think this effected his offensive playcalling to some effect. Everyone knows Gibbs is a offensive genius but last year something was lacking... Maybe this role effected that.

With Barrow I think we should let him make the decision to stay on the team by demanding he take a major pay cut if he wants to stay otherwise let him go. I just hate to see him go somewhere else and shine, after we payed for him to get better like trotter
The Rod Gardner situation is part his fault/ part the teams fault if he doesn't want to do what he can to get on another team than he needs to get his ass to camp so that he can do what he can to play here. The team on the other hand has money invested in this player and need atleast keep the door open for a resolution
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:11 AM   #78
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
Dude, there is one HUGE inherent flaw in your reasoning. All of your posts today have directed criticism towards Snyder and Cerrato, and the moves they have made in the past.

IT'S IRRELEVANT. Gibbs calls the shots now. Snyder heads up negotiations and salary cap management, and Cerrato heads up scouting. But in the end, players are Gibbs' call (with lots of help from Gregg Williams on D guys).

Criticizing the current front office for decisions made before Gibbs arrived is just plain asinine. It makes no sense. Your problem is you're looking back too much. I don't know why you would want to look back at the dark ages so much, when the presence of Joe Gibbs, Joe Bugel, Gregg Williams, and Greg Blache gives us so much to look forward to in the future.

Have hope. Last year's free agency and draft success should give you reason to feel optimistic. The change you want ALREADY HAPPENED. Snyder and Cerrato don't call the shots anymore, Joe Gibbs does.
Can someone clear this up for me, because I thought that all draft decisions were the result of a "team" effort between Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder. Don't they compile notebooks on all draft prospects and make the decisions together? Of course Danny Boy will side with Gibbs on all matters, but if memory serves me, I believe the threesome is still calling the personnell shots. I really don't see Phillip Daniels as anything but a bust SO FAR. To say he played well for the money doesn't make sense to me because he only played in 4 games, and his history is an injury plagued one.
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:49 AM   #79
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Re: do we show our hand to soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
Can someone clear this up for me, because I thought that all draft decisions were the result of a "team" effort between Gibbs, Cerrato, and Snyder. Don't they compile notebooks on all draft prospects and make the decisions together? Of course Danny Boy will side with Gibbs on all matters, but if memory serves me, I believe the threesome is still calling the personnell shots. I really don't see Phillip Daniels as anything but a bust SO FAR. To say he played well for the money doesn't make sense to me because he only played in 4 games, and his history is an injury plagued one.
Yeah it is the result of a team effort. The offseason process works like this:

1) Gibbs and the coaches review the roster and identify needs. They review the roster for certain positions that need strengthening, and they decide what types of skills and traits they want to fill that position with. For example, this past offseason they decided they needed an upgrade at center. They specifically targeted athletic centers who could get out to make blocks on the stretch plays they want to run with Portis this year.

2) Cerrato and the scouting staff compile information, scouting reports, and video of available players at those positions.

3) Gibbs and his coaching staff review the information and watch the videos. They look for the types of techniques and skill sets that they feel is important for the position. They rank the available players at each position.

4) Dan Snyder gets the player rankings (you could call it a "wish list"), and starts the negotiation process. He looks at the salary cap situation with Schaffer and gets a feel for how he needs to fit things into the cap. They then begin to recruit and sell the top player on Gibbs' wish list at each position. Gibbs and Snyder go out to dinner with the player and his agent, crap like that. They feel them out for contract demands, and they decide if they can fit under the Skins' cap. If they think it's doable, Snyder starts negotiating.

So yes, it's a group decision, because Cerrato is the scouting monkey who provides information, so technically he has a role. Snyder does the negotiating and cap management with support from Schaffer, so technically they have a role. But Gibbs picks out the players he wants, with lots of help and evaluation from his assistants. That's what they mean when they say that Gibbs has "final say on personnel."

So yeah, technically it's a group effort. But Gibbs is really the one in charge, and calls the shots on which players to get.
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Old 07-22-2005, 10:40 AM   #80
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Why don't we find out the answer to our decision-making questions straight from the horse's mouth
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:39 PM   #81
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

WoW! Now I remember why I don't frequent Extremeskins! My eyes like more light. Extremeskins is so dark! I had almost forgotten that Awesome read on cousinvinnie.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:12 PM   #82
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Seriously. AND the avatars AND the signatures...
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:35 PM   #83
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
Well guess what jackass, Ive got a reason to! Look at the personell moves these idiots have made, that's why we are in the hole we are in. Thanks to Cerrato and Snyder, the following free agents and drafts have built our team (not).

Stephen Alexander (2nd round 1998)
Skip Hicks (3rd round 1998)
Mark Fischer (5th round 1998)
Nate Stimson (4th round 1999)
Derek G. Smith (5th round 1999)
Lloyd Harrison (3rd round 2000)
Michael Moore (4th round 2000)
Quincy Sanders (5th round 2000)
Sage Rosenfels (4th Round 2001)

Our middle round picks SUCKED for years!!! This is partially the reason we can't build a team.
On one hand, he's right. Lots of misses there. But take a closer look:
Stephen Alexander: 113 catches in first 3 years as a Redskin (most catches by a Redskin TE in that duration since 1993) - not re-signed after injury-plagued 4th season. Pro Bowler in 2000. This was not a bad pick.

Skip Hicks: 8 TD's as a rookie. Stuck behind Stephen Davis during Redskins tenure, purged during the Schottenheimer regime. Still in the league, by the way, unlike first round pick Curtis Enis.

Marc Fisher: 16 game starter in 2000. A quote from an interview with Business Week magazine - "In April of 1998, I was drafted by the Washington Redskins... During my half decade in the NFL...I broke my leg, tore my anterior cruciate ligament, disfigured my fingers, got married, had a son, started 18 games... got released and retired." Doesn't sound like a screw-up by the front office.

Sage Rosenfels: Drafted by one coach, traded by another. The year Rosenfels was traded we had complete turnover at the position - not one QB remained on the roster. Rosenfels still has a job in the NFL, which indicates he isn't entirely a lost cause.

As for the rest, you win. Like every team in the NFL, the Redskins have made some bad picks. Don't believe me? In 2000, the mighty New England Patriots (the benchmark by which all drafts should be measured) selected Adrian Klemm, J. R. Redmond and Greg - Robinson Randall. Klemm, the top pick, saw action in 2 games last year. Redmond has 196 career carries and is no longer with the team. Randall is no longer with his team, and got exactly zero snaps in 2004.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:35 PM   #84
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAS
Why don't we find out the answer to our decision-making questions straight from the horse's mouth
Good find...

I knew I had read that before, I just couldn't place where it was from.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:39 PM   #85
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Cerrato is a pretty stand-up guy it seems like to me.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:22 PM   #86
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Forgot to mention that wonderful trade deal that brought us Trung Candidate. Anyone remember if we gave up a 2nd or a 3rd rounder for Trung?
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:31 PM   #87
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
Forgot to mention that wonderful trade deal that brought us Trung Candidate. Anyone remember if we gave up a 2nd or a 3rd rounder for Trung?
This is getting old, Paul. What does Trung Canidate have to do with a front office in which Gibbs calls the shots??

That's not a rhetorical question.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:44 PM   #88
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection
Cerrato is a pretty stand-up guy it seems like to me.
Vinny never stands up...it would be to hard for him to keep his nose up Danny's butt if he were standing.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:57 PM   #89
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
Vinny never stands up...it would be to hard for him to keep his nose up Danny's butt if he were standing.

Ba--Zing!!!
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:59 PM   #90
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Re: do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulskinsfan
Forgot to mention that wonderful trade deal that brought us Trung Candidate. Anyone remember if we gave up a 2nd or a 3rd rounder for Trung?
I'm going to steal a quote that someone else used on a sister site, taken from the 1970 movie Kelly's Heroes..it should be our mantra.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"
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