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Where are the apologies?

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Old 09-20-2005, 07:15 PM   #1
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Where are the apologies?

I just got home from a trip - - had to watch the game in a hotel bar last night. I fully expected to see at least three or four threads in here full of apologies from people who had accused Joe Gibbs of being a lying weasel and a backstabbing ne'er-do-well, but I can't seem to find them. OK, you may still not like the way he handled the situation, but he got it right.

Maybe it's my browser that can't find the threads here that would try to explain that Patrick Ramsey would not have made that 25 yard scramble in the 4th quarter because had he started then, he'd still be running to make it to the full 25 yards.

So, let me say it explicitly:


Joe Gibbs made a QB decision and it was the CORRECT one.

Joe Gibbs is not infallible but he appears to know just a tad more about QBs than the "Patrick Ramsey Fan Cub" officers.


Now let me make a prediction that will make me no friends among the Patrick Ramsey Fan Club officers and members:


Unless Brunell is incapable of playing, Patrick Ramsey will not take another meaningful snap all of this year.

Next year, Ramsey's status with the team will be determined exclusively by two things:


1. The economics of his contract.

2. The development of Jason Campbell. If Campbell is ready to be the #2 QB next year, Ramsey's contract is a bit expensive for a #3 QB


Absent injury to Mark Brunell, Patrick Ramsey's next start in a meaningful regular season NFL game will be in a different uniform.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:18 PM   #2
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Way to come out blasting SCurm ... :headbange
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:29 PM   #3
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Re: Where are the apologies?

I'm sorry SC -- I can't excuse 3 1/4 of just horrible QBing with 3/4 of one. I feel Ramsey would have done better throughout the game and given us a win that wouldn't have stopped my heart three times! Brunell still doesnt have me sold till he can perform anywhere near the level of the 4th quarter more than once. We have 3 unproven QBs as far as Im concerned.
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:30 PM   #4
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Yep SC, I hear ya bro'! Maybe some did a little sneaky sneaky onto the ol' bandwagon while we weren't looking, LOL!!!
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:46 PM   #5
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon
Joe Gibbs made a QB decision and it was the CORRECT one..
In terms of last night's game? Probably.

In terms of the season? I'm not sold quite yet.

For 56 minutes of that game, I was pretty sure Gibbs had made the wrong decision, and I'm almost certain even the most ardent Brunell supporters began to have their doubts, as well-- whether they'll admit it or not.

I'm not entirely sure that we've seen the last of Ramsey in a Skins uniform, either. If Brunell reverts to 2004 form and the Skins start losing, OR if Brunell goes down for any period of time, do you really believe that Gibbs will put the fate of this team in the hands of a rookie, when he has an experienced, former starter on the bench?

NO. Explicit enough for you?

Perhaps we should let this season unfold just a bit further before we start thumping our chests and belittling those with the "audacity" to question a man whose offense-- outside of two single plays in about 2 minutes of one game-- has looked just south of ineffective.





**This in no way means that I'm rooting for Brunell to fail. I want the Redskins to win, and if Brunell is the starter, then he damn well better perform like one. Same goes equally for Ramsey or Campbell. That also means Gibbs has to call more shots like he did in the last 4 minutes of Monday's win.

As that game will tell you-- as if it isn't obvious-- it takes good playcalling AND good execution to win a football game. The Skins are lucky it only took about four minutes worth to beat the Cowboys.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:00 PM   #6
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Re: Where are the apologies?

apologies? are you kidding? the offense was EXACTLY what i expected, to the letter. lifeless and inadequate. i was planning on holding back for longer, for the sake of an awesome win, but people insist.

those passes were an act of complete desperation that were NOT in Joe Gibbs' gameplan. there i said it, try and tell me different.

if not for Santana's until then completely overlooked and untapped talent, we would be right back in 2004. thank god the team didn't get discouraged.

Ramsey had been throwing to Santana and Cooley all off-season, and yes at the risk of more INTs, we would have seen more than ZERO points halfway into the fourth quarter.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:14 PM   #7
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Re: Where are the apologies?

What I don't understand about the Ramsey apologists is this: How can they say this decision was made quickly? Ramsey has never shown anything. He is entering his 4th year, and he has shown no signs of improvement. He wasn't good for Gibbs last year. He stunk up the joint in preseason, and he was outplayed by Brunell then. Ramsey did nothing to earn the job.

I'm not saying that Brunell is 'the answer' at this point. But, Patrick has done nothing to show that he deserves to be a starting QB in this league.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:24 PM   #8
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Re: Where are the apologies?

You know, as bad as the offense played through most of the game, the fact is, our team kept fighting and won. Sure, Brunell isn't Joe Montana, neither is Patrick Ramsey. But, it's games like this that can turn a team and a season around. No matter how much people will continue to complain, the fact is, we're 2-0 right now, and we accomplished something we haven't been able to accomplish in a long time - we beat the Dallas Cowboys in Dallas in front of a nationally televised audience. If anybody thinks that means zero to this team and the team's confidence, you're sadly delusional.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:27 PM   #9
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Whoa...did we not win the game last night! Maybe I am feeling differently about the whole QB controversy thing as an admited "Ramsey Apologist." Because I watched it all with my two eyes last night and we won I am not going to engage in anymore Burgundy and Gold bashing, the guys who wear that uniform are OUR guys.

Brunell brought the team back from what seemed an insurmountable lead at DALLAS! So let us enjoy it and stop with Brunell/Ramsey/Campbell debate. Do I have to scream it, "WE BEAT DALLAS!" It is time to rally around whoever is wearing the Burgundy and Gold.

As for Ramsey, lets root for him, maybe he'll get his confidence back since the pressure is off, if he gets called in to play we all need to be rooting for him and hoping that he is ready. Maybe a coach will pull him aside and show him some film of Trent Dilfer moving around in the pocket and rolling out against Green Bay. Last I thought Dilfer would never be confused for a mobile QB in the Steve Young mold, but he looked pretty good in the Packer game. So who is to say that Ramsey could not learn some new things, especially if he were to be coached, granted he is not the focus now, but who knows?
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:37 PM   #10
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtBagZ
Whoa...did we not win the game last night! Maybe I am feeling differently about the whole QB controversy thing as an admited "Ramsey Apologist." Because I watched it all with my two eyes last night and we won I am not going to engage in anymore Burgundy and Gold bashing, the guys who wear that uniform are OUR guys.
yeah man, we did win, and i want to enjoy this historic win for at least a week before we get nasty amongst each other again. it's too soon for any I Told You So's but if someone wants to insist that the problems that were so apparent in 2004 weren't just as apparent last night, then with reluctance i'll throw out I Told You So's.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:43 PM   #11
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Re: Where are the apologies?

i did apologize once in the game thread, but i'm definitely not sold on brunell yet.

4 minutes of good playing is not even close to enough
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:46 PM   #12
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon
I just got home from a trip - - had to watch the game in a hotel bar last night. I fully expected to see at least three or four threads in here full of apologies from people who had accused Joe Gibbs of being a lying weasel and a backstabbing ne'er-do-well, but I can't seem to find them. OK, you may still not like the way he handled the situation, but he got it right.

Maybe it's my browser that can't find the threads here that would try to explain that Patrick Ramsey would not have made that 25 yard scramble in the 4th quarter because had he started then, he'd still be running to make it to the full 25 yards.

So, let me say it explicitly:

Joe Gibbs made a QB decision and it was the CORRECT one.

Joe Gibbs is not infallible but he appears to know just a tad more about QBs than the "Patrick Ramsey Fan Cub" officers.
Thank you for yet another gracious post. Did I ever claim to know more than Gibbs about football or QBs in general? No. Will I give him a blank check to do whatever he thinks is right and praise the moves regardless of what I think? No.

Last night, after 56 minutes of dreadful play, I said that I would give both Brunell and Gibbs some credit. I still do not agree with the switch, but I am willing to admit that it is possible that I could be wrong. I also am willing to give them a pass because I wanted to beat the Cowboys more than anything. And, in the end, we won the game. It wasn't a pretty win. Our offense looked dreadful for most of the game, but we won and that is all that matters.
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:51 PM   #13
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecrisp
**This in no way means that I'm rooting for Brunell to fail. I want the Redskins to win, and if Brunell is the starter, then he damn well better perform like one. Same goes equally for Ramsey or Campbell. That also means Gibbs has to call more shots like he did in the last 4 minutes of Monday's win.

As that game will tell you-- as if it isn't obvious-- it takes good playcalling AND good execution to win a football game. The Skins are lucky it only took about four minutes worth to beat the Cowboys.
Isn't it interesting how those of us who believe that Ramsey is our team's best bet need to constantly remind people that we are Redskins fans? People act as though we are Ramsey fans simply because we love who Ramsey is and not what he can do for our team.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:01 PM   #14
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Re: Where are the apologies?

I really am not looking for an apology. I'm looking for a couple of daredevils to just jump off the Ramsey bandwagon and hop on the winning train because the next stop is Landover, MD and Seahawks are standing in the way. I don't care who does them in, as long as we win.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:08 PM   #15
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Re: Where are the apologies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art_Monk_HOF
What I don't understand about the Ramsey apologists is this: How can they say this decision was made quickly? Ramsey has never shown anything. He is entering his 4th year, and he has shown no signs of improvement. He wasn't good for Gibbs last year. He stunk up the joint in preseason, and he was outplayed by Brunell then. Ramsey did nothing to earn the job.

I'm not saying that Brunell is 'the answer' at this point. But, Patrick has done nothing to show that he deserves to be a starting QB in this league.
Seems to me that Gibbs felt Ramsey was good enough last year to earn the starting job. He did, after all, name him the starter after seeing him improve over the course of the last few games (some of which were actually victories, believe it or not) last season.

Hmmm... are you questioning Gibbs's judgement? Seems awfully "un-Redskins Fan-like" of you. Maybe you should apologize to all of us for questioning what Gibbs ever saw in Ramsey to make him bench Mark Brunell and-- gasp!-- name Ramsey the 2005 starter. [/sarcasm]

Sorry. That statement was made in light of how ridiculous this "Holy Crusade of the Brunell Backers" has become.

Simply because people disagree with Gibbs's decision to start Brunell doesn't mean they're not Redskins fans. It doesn't mean they're Gibbs-haters or even Brunell-haters. It doesn't make them "Ramsey apologists," either. It simply means they have a different perspective on what's best for this team-- this team that they love and live and die for every bit as much as anyone else on this board.

There are those of us who prefer Brunell's cautious, conservative approach to "game management", and there are those of us who prefer Ramsey's youthful (if unrefined and sometimes ill-advised) aggressiveness. Both players-- because of their respective and numerous flaws-- have lost more games than they've won for this team, and neither have proven they're 'the answer'.

With the disparity in age of the two quarterbacks in this debate, perhaps the better question is, if Gibbs's decision wasn't made quickly, would it have been made at all?

Perhaps we'll never know.
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