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Old 04-14-2004, 08:53 AM   #16
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That sounds like a move someone would make on paper, completely detached from reality. Despite what some may think, Ramsey is a QB you can win with. Good mobility, great arm strength, and given the opportunity a leader. Guys will follow him to victory. You could get a taste of that last season when he would mount these combacks and fall just short. (Falling just short was usually bad playcalling). It makes no sense to bring in a vet to train a young QB and to start that young QB back at page one. Ramsey has experience, just needs a good tutor which he's never had and pass protection. I honestly believe that Brunell wouldn't be a Skin now if Ramesy would have had some protection last season, but then I also believe Spurrier would still be our coach, and even though I liked the guy, I like Gibbs WAY more!
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:05 AM   #17
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Kingerock, I agree. Ramsey definitely is a leader, and I am hoping that he beats out Brunell in camp. BUt if he is not going to be happy here and he starts wanting to be traded, we have to look at our options.
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:41 AM   #18
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From the salary charts, I see that Ramsey won't be a UFA until 2007, which gives us three years with a relatively small cap hit (about $1M per year). I don't think we will be able to get another QB of his quality for that type of compensation. Assuming that Brunnel starts this year and next, we get Ramsey for 2006, and then depending on his performance a new contract would have to be negotiated for 2007. Accordingly, I am now of the opinion, that it certainly doesn't make sense to trade Ramsey.
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:31 AM   #19
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Ramsey is so cheap. THis has got to be bs.
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:36 AM   #20
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Trade our O-Line anchor and future Pro-Bowl Safety (Taylor) for a QB? Makes perfect sense! We should also try to trade Arrington and Smoot for some more draft picks so we can stockpile some WR's!

It is obvious that a woman is starting these rumors - because they don't make any logical sense!!
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Old 04-14-2004, 12:19 PM   #21
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I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

By the way, I think completion percentage says a lot of a QB, more than pure arm strength (ala Joe Montana, Steve Young). Here's a look at some QB's in the league and their completion percentage in their first couple of years:

Drew Brees - 61% and 58%
Q. Carter - 57% and 58%
J. Harrington - 50% and 56%
J. McCown - 57%
B. Leftwich - 57%

Last edited by skins93; 04-14-2004 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 04-14-2004, 12:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingerock
You could get a taste of that last season when he would mount these combacks and fall just short. (Falling just short was usually bad playcalling).
except that 2pt conversion throw against phili. But I agree, Ramsey showed his leadership abilities and his drive when he kept getting up after being pounded to the ground and coming back for more. I think he has plenty of potential, but that being said you know this is going to more than likely leave a bad taste in his mouth. I see him taking the starting role in a in one and a half years to two years and then when he becomes a free agent and at his full potential, he's gonna bolt and sign somewhere else because of the bringing in of Brunnel. Part of me wants him to stay and prove me wrong, but another part of me would prefer the skins drafting a new qb to mold who has a clean slate with the team.
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Old 04-14-2004, 03:30 PM   #23
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Look at Ramseys numbers for the first, lets say five weeks. Thats the only time he has had his head on striaght. That boy got knocked silly week in and week out. He isnt afriad to take a hit, and stayed in there until he could find someone open. Eventually he just started throwing it away and gettign picks in hopes of not getting drilled. You give Ramsey a good o-line and I haev no doubts that he could perform, he did bring us back into a lot of games. Next year his going to have a running game as well, which will do wonders for protection.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:14 AM   #24
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plus another good thing about keeping Ramsey would be that'd he's gonna be cheaper to keep on the team than any qb we might draft in his place if we used the first round pick we could get for him towards that purpose.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:14 AM   #25
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Any QB drafted in teh top five will get a 10+ million dollar signing bonus
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:48 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field, by the way how smart was young when he was playing in tampa bay? the guy was horrible much worse than ramsey ever could be, and how long did it take him to really be effeciant at san fran? A while. ramsey was able to do what he did in spite of an absoultly attroches blocking scheme, and still had success, and all the while he had a bad foot, Ramsey isn't going to be a very good QB, he is going to be a great QB, an elite type QB when it's all said and done. As for having no mobility in the pocket? he may have more pocket awareness than any QB in the game, he manuever's in the pocket maybe better than any QB I have seen, what he doesn't have is straight ahead speed, but he's not slow either, I watched him pull away from jet LB sam cowart last season so he has the speed to out run an OLB, he just doesn't have after burner's that's all. I would also like to see a tougher QB in the league, after what I saw ramsey absorb last year I know 1 thing, this kid is a rock, and with all that punishment not once did I see him with happy feet or throw off his back foot he stood in there because his desire to win was greater than his desire not to be hurt, as for smart's? I would like to know who is more intellegent than Ramsey at the QB position?
So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skins93
I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...
To address your points:

First, every report I have read from analysts, insiders and reporters who DO talk to the players is that Ramsey is LOVED in the locker room. Jansen (admittedly his best friend) has constantly stated that everyone respects him for taking the punishment, not pointing fingers and never giving up. If you can show me one statement from a player that contradicts this - please show me because I have never seen anything to that effect.

Second, this one I'll give ya, he is not the most mobile quarterback. Also, when he moves (rollouts and planned movement), he seems to lose his mechanics. I think his pocket awareness is good not great and he can shift around in it. But no, Vick he is not. But so what? Dan Marino - Not mobile, Jim Kelly - Not mobile, Tom Brady- no more mobile than Ramsey, same with Farve and Manning. Sorry, mobility not key to being a great quarterback.

Third, "a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes"?? What Spurrier offense are you talking about? Certainly not the "Fun n' Gun" which emphasizes flooding the entire field with receivers looking deep first then working back to the short pass. Spurrier emphasized low percentage passing figuring that, heck, if I hit 50% of my long balls, that's more TD's than the other side can score.

Fourth, "that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?" When the person is a qb with starting experience, has the potential for a huge upside, and in this day of cap constraints, ABSOLUTELY. To fail to consider cap costs when deciding whether to keep, cut or trade a quality (and I emphasize "quality") player would be evidence of severe front office mismanagement.

Ramsey critics MAY be right - maybe he will not develop into a quality starter. From everything I have seen and read, such opinions are contrary to talent evaluators throughout the league. The guy's only had two years and, yes, he has demonstrated some flaws (holds the ball to long, takes sack instead of getting rid of it, doesn't seem to see the field at times). But let's see what he can do under a coach who doesn't require the QB to win the game out of the gate and who knows how to win with a variety of QB's.

IMHO - Trading a quality player and quality person like Ramsey at this time and for this franchise would be a huge mistake.
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:14 AM   #28
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Well said, Joe.
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Old 04-15-2004, 11:19 AM   #29
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Thanks BB
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:33 PM   #30
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Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea
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