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Old 04-15-2004, 11:14 AM   #31
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Well said, Joe.
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Old 04-15-2004, 12:19 PM   #32
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Thanks BB
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:33 PM   #33
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Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru
I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though.
Right on SFT&T, for all his faults, Ramsey is one of the toughest QB's I have seen. He played on a broken foot for how long?? This factor alone ranks him high in my books and, I think, makes a huge difference to his teammates. Anyone remember how the team just quit on Jeff What's-His-Name, you know the "omigod I may be hit and it's all your fault" QB? This team will NEVER quit on Ramsey.

I don't think anyone, even his critics, can deny that Ramsey has the raw talent to be a good QB - maybe even more, but at the very least a good, quality, "I can win with you" QB. If anyone can take him to the next step and help his skills match his toughness, it's Gibbs.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:52 PM   #35
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I'm starting to agree with you JoeRedskin, but I think a lot of people will forget Ramsey when Losman (took Ramsey's place at Tulane) becomes a starter. From what I've read and seen, he has similar if not better arm strength than Ramsey, a very fiery field general, and much more mobile.

http://www.nflfuture.com/jplosman.html

I would love to keep Ramsey, but if we get a good enough deal with a good enough qb available, I think we need to make the trade. I say this because like I wrote before, unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possibly elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Let's not forget he's losing a lot of money sitting on the bench since most of his contract is pretty much built upon perfomance incentives. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?

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Old 04-15-2004, 03:00 PM   #36
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In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field
Spurrier ran a dink and dunk offense. He wanted to throw it down the field but had never heard of a blocking scheme so he ran screen plays all the time. Ramsey threw it down field a lot in the begining but then never got the chance to anymore.

What Ramsey needs is confidence in his team, he lost that at the end of the year. He needs to step in there and have a team block for him. Under Bugel that will happen. I think Ramsey should get the start until he proves otherwise. This preseason is going to be an interesting one. It would be a shame to waste Ramsey for two years, his going into his prime years. If Gibbs thinks hes going to play Brunell just becuase hes a vet then id trade Ramsey, otherwise keep him and let him play and have the vet at backup.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:05 PM   #37
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Unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possible elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?
I understand that Ramsey may bolt and, no matter what happens, that is a possibility. BUT, it depends on how he is treated in the next 3 years. If Brunell gets the job even if outperformed by Ramsey, Ramsey will be gone. On the other hand, if Gibbs can stroke Ramsey enough, keep him learning, AND give him the job if he earns it, then he will likely stay and the Skins get to keep two quality QB's for three years at a reasonable cost (Brunell is gone after three, his contract numbers explode in year 4 which, by the way is when Ramsey's contract expires). At the end of his contract, the Skins pay Ramsey top dollar and a little extra for sitting and learning and BAM - no QB worries for the next 10-15 years.

Drafting a new QB is always a risk. I've read the reports on Losman - he looks like a good bet BUT he is still a risk and he doesn't have the "lockeroom love" already developed by Ramsey. In fact, Losman may get backlash for being the guy brought in to replace Ramsey. Further - Gibbs said he is not trading Ramsey, if this turns out to be hot air - talk about backlash. As for the promise of continuity - well, that would just go out the door before the season even starts.

Nope. I recognize other QB's may have more potential than Ramsey, but, as I said before, for this franchise and at this time, trading Ramsey for a new QB is just a bad move.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:20 PM   #38
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I agree SkinsnCanes except there's the little matter of the $40+ million contract and $7 million signing bonus that was given to Brunnel. If Brunnel isn't the starter this year and part of next, I know I for one will be extremely pissed off at the FO (and forgive me for saying this but also a little at Mr. Gibbs since Brunnel was his call) for giving up a 3rd round selection in a deep draft and giving a big ass contract for a player who's not even a starter. And while I still hope the starting job really is a competition, it could only make Ramsey a better qb if he sat and learned for atleast most of this upcoming year. And people talk about Brunnel like he's a bum or something, but I think talent wise with his expireince, leadership, and field vision, he's a better qb than Ramsey right now. Brunnel knows not to hang onto the ball forever and still has a little giddy-up in his step to get out of the pocket. I have a feeling Mr. Gibbs knows a little more about the talent of his players than we do so I'm gonna trust him whether he wants to keep Ramsey or trade ramsey and bring in a qb that could be his project.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:22 PM   #39
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So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?
BB your a funny guy. lol but keep it down my girlfriend's nephew start's for the cowboy's, and you never know when the enemy is monitoring the site. lol
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:23 PM   #40
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those r good points Joe and I hadn't really thought about the backlash that would come with the guy brought in to replace ramsey, especially if it was losman.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:34 PM   #41
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Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea
The one thing that you have to take into account is Ramsey almost never had a chance to plant and look down field the defender's were in the back field almost as fast as he was, the fact is only a guy like vick, or MCnabb would be able to get away from some of those pass rushes, he had a choice start running and lose, or give himself a little extra time staying pat and taking the hit in order to let a player break free down field, I know I am very pro Ramsey, but I have to be true to my ability to read talent, and I say this kid is absolutly perfect for Gibb's, I also know that saying any player who hasen't gone out and put up big number's is going to be great will bring back sceptic's, and critisism, but that's what I see in this kid, and I am not backing off that statement, it's what I believe, and I will critisize a player in a heartbeat, I don't care who he is, If he ain't gettin the job done.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:40 PM   #42
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I agree with you offiss that Ramsey has a world of talent and under the right leadership with Gibbs, he's gonna be awesome. It's not like Spurrier's offense is the first one you'd choose to put a rookie into. I'm just worried about seeing the fruits of the Redskins labor leaving in a few years because of what's happened this season. Atleast we still have his best friend Jansen on the team and that will be an important factor in Ramsey staying down the road I think.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:43 PM   #43
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Gibbs is quoted as saying that hes learned a lot during his first free agency, and that he realizes he made some mistakes and will learn fromthem. He wont say what the mistakes are, but im willing to bet Brunell is one of them. Atleast the way they aquired him.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:55 PM   #44
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Gibbs is quoted as saying that hes learned a lot during his first free agency, and that he realizes he made some mistakes and will learn fromthem. He wont say what the mistakes are, but im willing to bet Brunell is one of them. Atleast the way they aquired him.
Ohhhhhh. Good one S&C! I bet you're right on about that comment.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:04 PM   #45
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Ohhhhhh. Good one S&C! I bet you're right on about that comment.
Hey he should read this site, WE TRIED TO WARN HIM!
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