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Interesting tidbit about our running game

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Old 11-28-2005, 02:14 PM   #31
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

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Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I think these are the two statements that I have the biggest problem with Beems. Portis was supposed to transform our offense into the Colts of Seahawks. Not to be a smart ass (sorry), but Portis can't wave a wand and turn Brunell into Manning or Samuels into Jones etc.
If I implied that Clinton Portis is capable of genetic cloning, or applying a little “hocus-pocus” to give us Walter Jones and Peyton Manning, then I apologize for the confusion. I expected Portis to help lead this offense to levels among the Colts and Seahawks. If I’m guilty of great expectations, so be it. Ask the players if they expect to be the best every week. According to what I’ve read from your posts, you’d be surprised at their own expectations. Yes, I expect our team to be the best, and I want this team to win. I’m a fan! What do you expect of me? To be happy at 6-10 or 5-6? I don’t expect to blow fourth quarter leads for three games in a row with the personnel and the coaching staff this team has acquired. Clinton Portis is a part of this team that for three games in a row has not been able to secure the win when called upon to do it.

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Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
You actually believe the Portis-Bailey (2nd pick) deal is going to go down like the Walker-Mitchell trade. I think that's just a little bit of an overstatement and that is precisely the problem that I am having lately. I think people are overreacting to our recent losses (as disastrous as they are) and using hyperbole and exaggeration at every turn.
I’ve been saying that the Skins got a raw deal from the beginning, not just since this slump. Since there aren’t big trades in the NFL anymore, deductive reasoning tells me that this one, as of right now, could stand right with them.
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Old 11-28-2005, 02:22 PM   #32
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

say what you want to about Portis, but the real problem, like someone mentioned earlier in this thread, is the lack of an 2nd WR. Yeah Cooley does well but once Moss is doubled and Cooley is taken away who is our next option?

Remember back when we made the playoffs in '99? We did have 2 downfield threats in Westbrook and Connell. Say what you will about them but they did keep opposing D's honest.

This year all we have for a downfield threat is Moss, take that away and stack the box and we are done.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:09 PM   #33
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

Yeah, Portis needs to get into the end zone more. Look at LT to see how much of an impact TDs make.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:18 PM   #34
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

As i have said from day 1...the Portis trade was a disaster. I don't care about Bailey and i don't even care about the wasted 2nd round pick that we threw in for some reason. What i do care about is that Portis is a BAD FIT for Joe Gibbs offense. Putting a back like Portis in Joe Gibbs offense is like putting a square peg in a round hole...it's not working. If you think it is working then why do we line up in shot gun formation on 3rd and 2 at crucuial points in a game? Gibbs built a hall of fame coaching carreer with a power running game as the basis for everything. Portis is a pretty good player...he is just not the player the redskins needed. I have alwasy felt that the skins made that trade out of convenience...denver had a player who didn't want to be there and we had a player who didn't want to be here so lets get together and trade our headaches. And now the skins have 50 million invested in a running back who can not move the pile and play the smash mouth between the tackles football that Gibbs built his reputation playing. Is Gibbs play calling at the end of a game any different now than it was 15 years ago? The answer is no...15 years ago in the 4th quarter with a lead Gibbs called running plays and ran out the clock becasue he had the personel to get it done. This is not Portis's fault it's the redskins fault for bringing him here.
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:35 PM   #35
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

I would like to know why Portis not really being an ideal fit for Joe Gibbs' offense is Portis's fault. First of all, if he didn't fit, Joe shouldn't have gotten him.

However, as it stands, he's the league's 9th leading rusher and he's averaging 4.2 ypc. That's more than Willis McGahee and Rudi Johnson, numbers 6 and 8 on the list. The problem is the system he's running in. Joe Gibbs' unwillingness to adapt to the strengths of his players is the damn problem.

I'd also like to know why Portis's running is always a problem when we lose games? The only time you all didn't want to bench him after a loss was the game against the Bucs.

Another big problem is what Southpaw mentioned, as it stands we have the #9 back in the league and the #15 quarterback according to yards.

Other good teams:

Seahawks: Alexander #1, Hasselbeck #8
Colts: Edge #3, Peyton #10
Cincy: Johnson #6, Palmer #2
Chargers: LT #5, Brees #7
Giants: Tiki #2, Eli #6

Are you noticing some sort of trend here? Those are all teams who rely on their offense. All of the other good teams rely on D. Since the Skins have shown they really can't rely on defense too much, they need a more balanced attack.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:10 PM   #36
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

Thanks for that stat. I'm listening to more Clinton bashing on the John Thompson show -- Clinton has supporters on the show, too -- and your comparison helps put things in perspective.

It takes ten other guys to deliver the ball to the back (or receiver) to make a play, and evey one of them has to perform for the play to work. If it isn't working, it doesn't just fall on the ball carrier. Sure, I would like to have Tomlinson or Alexander on the team, but they weren't available. Any thought that the Skins would have landed them is wishful thinking. Any thought that Tomlinson or Alexander would perform here as they do on their current team is Snyderitis. Haven't we had enough of that?

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Old 11-28-2005, 05:17 PM   #37
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

I just meant that the Skins can't just trot out a good defense and try to control the ball all day in the hopes that that will be enough to win the game. The defense hasn't been great at holding the lead especially when we don't control the ball late in games. Denver and Chicago stop the run and run the football. We haven't really shut down a running back in a few weeks. The ones we have stopped, we've let the team throw on us. The defense is too inconsistent right now to just try to rely on that to win games.

We need a balanced offensive attack to go along with a pretty good d in order to win.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:18 PM   #38
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

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Originally Posted by firstdown
The defense still only allowed 17 points to a very good offensive team. I would not say the skins cannot rely on our d. The o does have to score some points.
The defense had a seven point lead with less than a quarter to go. I agree, there needs to be more production out of the offense as a whole, but the offense didn't let the Chargers march down the field, and tie the game, when they had been holding them in check for the previous three quarters.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:28 PM   #39
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

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Originally Posted by celts32
As i have said from day 1...the Portis trade was a disaster. I don't care about Bailey and i don't even care about the wasted 2nd round pick that we threw in for some reason. What i do care about is that Portis is a BAD FIT for Joe Gibbs offense. Putting a back like Portis in Joe Gibbs offense is like putting a square peg in a round hole...it's not working. If you think it is working then why do we line up in shot gun formation on 3rd and 2 at crucuial points in a game? Gibbs built a hall of fame coaching carreer with a power running game as the basis for everything. Portis is a pretty good player...he is just not the player the redskins needed. I have alwasy felt that the skins made that trade out of convenience...denver had a player who didn't want to be there and we had a player who didn't want to be here so lets get together and trade our headaches. And now the skins have 50 million invested in a running back who can not move the pile and play the smash mouth between the tackles football that Gibbs built his reputation playing. Is Gibbs play calling at the end of a game any different now than it was 15 years ago? The answer is no...15 years ago in the 4th quarter with a lead Gibbs called running plays and ran out the clock becasue he had the personel to get it done. This is not Portis's fault it's the redskins fault for bringing him here.

I can concur to a greater extent with the sentiments you share because they do have merit. How many games has Clinton been used to run out the clock and preserve wins in the 4th qtr.? & How many 100yd. games does he have against NFC East opponents?
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:36 PM   #40
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

wasnt the portis trade a done deal before coach gibbs came back?
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:45 PM   #41
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

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wasnt the portis trade a done deal before coach gibbs came back?
Nope, in fact it was supposedly orchestrated by Gibbs.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:45 PM   #42
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

Nah, Gibbs made the deal.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:59 PM   #43
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemnseven
If I implied that Clinton Portis is capable of genetic cloning, or applying a little “hocus-pocus” to give us Walter Jones and Peyton Manning, then I apologize for the confusion. I expected Portis to help lead this offense to levels among the Colts and Seahawks. If I’m guilty of great expectations, so be it.
great, but who's going to be the superstar QB to keep 6 or 7 guys deep so portis can run at will? or the best left LG/LT combo in the league for portis to run behind and get 3+ yards a clip at absolute will... brunell is about 20 pegs short of manning and dockery/samuels can't hold the jock strap of what the seahawks have. If you want a killer offense, get us a better QB and better line play.
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Old 11-28-2005, 08:30 PM   #44
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

[QUOTE=skins052bgr8]Portis is not the problem, he is getting his yardage and moving the chains for the style back he is. He is not a bruiser up the middle 3rd and 2 type guy. That falls on Gibbs and the coaching staff.

Let me see

Tampa uses Alstott on short yardage not Cadillac or Pittman
Falcons use Duckett not Dunn
Giants use Short not Tiki

[QUOTE]

YES! YES! YES! Portis is not as good of a runner in short yardage situations, ESPECIALLY when teams are expecting it. We've seen that in every single game since Portis has been here. How many times have we seen 1st and goal on the 3, and we run two plays up the gut w/ Portis for absolutley jack-crap, and be forced to run a bootleg. The guy is just not that good in that type of a situation, so why do we continue to put him in the situation? Thats my problem. Portis, in my opinion, is a freaking awsome running back as a whole, but in that situation, I dont think hes that good. So my question is why is he in there then?
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:08 AM   #45
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Re: Interesting tidbit about our running game

[QUOTE=Gmanc711][QUOTE=skins052bgr8]Portis is not the problem, he is getting his yardage and moving the chains for the style back he is. He is not a bruiser up the middle 3rd and 2 type guy. That falls on Gibbs and the coaching staff.

Let me see

Tampa uses Alstott on short yardage not Cadillac or Pittman
Falcons use Duckett not Dunn
Giants use Short not Tiki

Quote:

YES! YES! YES! Portis is not as good of a runner in short yardage situations, ESPECIALLY when teams are expecting it. We've seen that in every single game since Portis has been here. How many times have we seen 1st and goal on the 3, and we run two plays up the gut w/ Portis for absolutley jack-crap, and be forced to run a bootleg. The guy is just not that good in that type of a situation, so why do we continue to put him in the situation? Thats my problem. Portis, in my opinion, is a freaking awsome running back as a whole, but in that situation, I dont think hes that good. So my question is why is he in there then?
Your absolutely right. Portis is not the complete back to run this offense. Gibbs used to have backs he could use in every situation. Portis is not that back...it's not his fault but he's not. Gibbs made a mistake bringing him here and paying him 50 million to be the every down starter.

I have a hard time imagining the skins winning big in the next few years with Portis as the every down back. They either need to trade him for a better fit which may not be possible due to the cap, or bring in another back who runs the inside runs and short yardage stuff better. But if you go that route you are paying Portis 50 million to be a part time player. It's not a good situation but they need to do something by next season.
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