What about a TRUE GM

Redskins_P · 11-29-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Lets go back and see, Taylor was an obvious pick, you and I could have made. Cooley has turned out to be good. This past draft was a questionable one. Rogers may be a good corner, however we were at need for a #2 receiver given our lack of size and presence of a physical receiver, which is now causing problems because we still dont have a #2 guy. Mike Williams was available and would have been and immediate player,probably. We could have taken a DB in the 2nd round or Campbell if they HAD to have him, he would have still been there. Nobody was taking him. Other than that, thats 3 out of 14 picks, plus any free agent pick ups from the draft that have not seen the field. I am not sure that qualifies as succesful or not. Drafting a QB in the 1st round is a sizeable gamble, not many 1st round QBs have panned out, with exception to Manning brothers, palmer, vick, although I still think is overrated to some extent. We trade away picks like they are poison! Bailey and a 2nd, a 3rd for brunell, a 1st for campbell, who is 3rd on the depth chart. If you take a 1st round QB, wouldn't you think he would be atleast 2nd on the depth chart. Especially since you spend all offseason working on a previous #1 QB pick in Ramsey, assurring him he is your guy, you are the starter. We needed obvious help on the d-line, but passes over two studs, which went to Dallas and will now kill us for the 5 to 10 years. Would you like any other moves of question. I know people are going to bring the free agent pickups into this. Griffin, Washington great pick ups. But 43 mil to 35 year QB, 10 mil up front for a 30 yr old corner. and not signing a true MLB, although that big signing from a year ago turned out to be a BIG waste of money in Mike Barrow. You let the leader of the LB core go to a division Rival, not very smart. I am sure there may be more moves, but I'll stop here.

First of all, Taylor wasn't an obvious pick. Everyone and their Mother thought we were going to draft KWII. We ended up making the right pick.

Barrow a big waste of money? No one knew that his knees were shot, and we did get him at a reasonable price.

We didn't let the leader of our LB core go. We gave him an offer within our cap, and he ended up getting paid with the NYG and left.

#56fanatic · 11-29-2005, 12:22 PM

how either of you two who responded to my previous post think Taylor was not a no brainer are crazy. An athlete like taylor comes only so often. Barrow was over the hill MLB who was overpaid. A bargain compared to what we normally pay people, you right. but still overpaid to what he was going to be offered somewher else. We can agree to disagree. unfortunetly the moves have been questionable at best. Some were great picks, but most have not been that well thought out.

Redskins_P · 11-29-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

how either of you two who responded to my previous post think Taylor was not a no brainer are crazy. An athlete like taylor comes only so often. Barrow was over the hill MLB who was overpaid. A bargain compared to what we normally pay people, you right. but still overpaid to what he was going to be offered somewher else. We can agree to disagree. unfortunetly the moves have been questionable at best. Some were great picks, but most have not been that well thought out.

The same things were said about KWII. Everyone envisioned him as our H-Back, and honestly all the so called "experts" had KWII as a lock for us.

Barrow was brought in because he was familiar with the system, and he was fairly cheap.

I would have to disagree that most of our picks were not well though out.

FirstandTen · 11-29-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

how either of you two who responded to my previous post think Taylor was not a no brainer are crazy. An athlete like taylor comes only so often. Barrow was over the hill MLB who was overpaid. A bargain compared to what we normally pay people, you right. but still overpaid to what he was going to be offered somewher else. We can agree to disagree. unfortunetly the moves have been questionable at best. Some were great picks, but most have not been that well thought out.

I don't think its crazy to state the truth. The fact of the matter is most experts thought we were taking Winslow for multiple reasons. One of those reasons being he would be a perfect fit as Gibb's "H Back". As it turned out our GM brain trust realized we could get Cooley in the 3rd round to fill that void.. That my friend is what having a good draft is all about.

Redskins_P · 11-29-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I don't think its crazy to state the truth. The fact of the matter is most experts thought we were taking Winslow for multiple reasons. One of those reasons being he would be a perfect fit as Gibb's "H Back". As it turned out our GM brain trust realized we could get Cooley in the 3rd round to fill that void.. That my friend is what having a good draft is all about.

Thank you!

Its funny how we all look so smart when we look at things in hindsight.

Whats done is done. Move on.

Schneed10 · 11-29-2005, 12:55 PM

Why are we talking about the front office structure?

Guys, one of our losses occurred because a side judge decided he'd throw up his arms, signaling that a two-point conversion was good despite the fact that he clearly couldn't see whether Alstott was in or not.

Another loss occurred because the refs don't know how to interpret the tuck rule properly. When Plummer pulled the ball back down, the throwing motion ended when the ball hit his other hand. But the refs called it an incomplete pass instead of awarding a safety.

We should be 7-4 right now. And besides, how close have we come on several other losses?

Ask yourselves this:

1) Is the team improving under Gibbs? I'd say yes. We're much better than last year.
2) What personnel moves are CAUSING us to lose games?

We're improving, and we're better than our record shows. Want a good stat? Here is the record of our opponents this year:

Against the Skins: 6-5
Against Everyone Else: 65-45

It's a tough ass schedule we're playing. We're getting better. Don't mess with progress.

celts32 · 11-29-2005, 01:30 PM

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

TheMalcolmConnection · 11-29-2005, 02:01 PM

Damn, I wish I was here during this discussion...

Yeah, basically what you guys said. No one is perfect, but like I said, I would think that at least 75% of the moves made have panned out.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-29-2005, 02:02 PM

People talked a lot about Casserly being a genius. Tell me this then, why do the Texans suck so bad? You would think that after three seasons of Carr getting pummeled that some genius would have realized by now that the O-line need massive infusions of talent.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-29-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Why are we talking about the front office structure?

Guys, one of our losses occurred because a side judge decided he'd throw up his arms, signaling that a two-point conversion was good despite the fact that he clearly couldn't see whether Alstott was in or not.

Another loss occurred because the refs don't know how to interpret the tuck rule properly. When Plummer pulled the ball back down, the throwing motion ended when the ball hit his other hand. But the refs called it an incomplete pass instead of awarding a safety.

We should be 7-4 right now. And besides, how close have we come on several other losses?

Ask yourselves this:

1) Is the team improving under Gibbs? I'd say yes. We're much better than last year.
2) What personnel moves are CAUSING us to lose games?

We're improving, and we're better than our record shows. Want a good stat? Here is the record of our opponents this year:

Against the Skins: 6-5
Against Everyone Else: 65-45

It's a tough ass schedule we're playing. We're getting better. Don't mess with progress.

Great post and nice research. I always like it when people actually reference facts when making a point.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-29-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

how either of you two who responded to my previous post think Taylor was not a no brainer are crazy. An athlete like taylor comes only so often. Barrow was over the hill MLB who was overpaid. A bargain compared to what we normally pay people, you right. but still overpaid to what he was going to be offered somewher else. We can agree to disagree. unfortunetly the moves have been questionable at best. Some were great picks, but most have not been that well thought out.

Taylor was not an obvious choice. Taylor and Winslow are both fantastic players with tremendous talent. Taylor was billed as the next Ronnie Lott whereas Winslow was said to be the best TE prospect in the history of the draft.

irish · 11-29-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

Sure Mel Kiper can pick the top 10 in the draft almost exactly in order every year but that does not mean those players end up being superstars or for that matter even servicable pros. A team needs good coaching and good talent evaluators to become great. The Texans have a good talent evaluator but the coaching is bad. The skins have good coaching but the talent evaluators can be improved. A GM would improve that process.

heybigstar · 11-29-2005, 03:35 PM

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

Redskins_P · 11-29-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heybigstar

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

When will people finally realize that CHAMP DID NOT WANT TO BE HERE!!!!!!!

:frusty:

He asked for the trade.

And I wouldn't call Portis slightly above average. He's still young, for what he's accomplished so far in his career, I wouldn't fall him slightly above average.

steveo395 · 11-29-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heybigstar

The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB.

There is more to being a running back than just running...he might be an above average runner but he's a great blocker and a pretty good receiver....and its not like the blocking or the playcalling is that good anyway, so its hard to run well.

Everyone keeps talking about the late round picks that gibbs has made. Some of the players are still on the team and might be good, they just haven't had a chance yet. Most late round picks take a few years to get good, they don't made immediate impacts. If they were going to make an immediate impact, they probably wouldn't be late round picks

11-29-2005, 12:22 PM	#17
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 38 Posts: 1,788	Re: What about a TRUE GM how either of you two who responded to my previous post think Taylor was not a no brainer are crazy. An athlete like taylor comes only so often. Barrow was over the hill MLB who was overpaid. A bargain compared to what we normally pay people, you right. but still overpaid to what he was going to be offered somewher else. We can agree to disagree. unfortunetly the moves have been questionable at best. Some were great picks, but most have not been that well thought out.

11-29-2005, 12:55 PM	#21
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,893	Re: What about a TRUE GM Why are we talking about the front office structure? Guys, one of our losses occurred because a side judge decided he'd throw up his arms, signaling that a two-point conversion was good despite the fact that he clearly couldn't see whether Alstott was in or not. Another loss occurred because the refs don't know how to interpret the tuck rule properly. When Plummer pulled the ball back down, the throwing motion ended when the ball hit his other hand. But the refs called it an incomplete pass instead of awarding a safety. We should be 7-4 right now. And besides, how close have we come on several other losses? Ask yourselves this: 1) Is the team improving under Gibbs? I'd say yes. We're much better than last year. 2) What personnel moves are CAUSING us to lose games? We're improving, and we're better than our record shows. Want a good stat? Here is the record of our opponents this year: Against the Skins: 6-5 Against Everyone Else: 65-45 It's a tough ass schedule we're playing. We're getting better. Don't mess with progress.

11-29-2005, 01:30 PM	#22
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 41 Posts: 2,643	Re: What about a TRUE GM They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record. As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more. __________________ Section 115 Row 23 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” http://victorybeer.com/

11-29-2005, 02:01 PM	#23
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,119	Re: What about a TRUE GM Damn, I wish I was here during this discussion... Yeah, basically what you guys said. No one is perfect, but like I said, I would think that at least 75% of the moves made have panned out. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

11-29-2005, 02:02 PM	#24
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 8,317	Re: What about a TRUE GM People talked a lot about Casserly being a genius. Tell me this then, why do the Texans suck so bad? You would think that after three seasons of Carr getting pummeled that some genius would have realized by now that the O-line need massive infusions of talent.

11-29-2005, 03:35 PM	#28
heybigstar Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 29 Posts: 368	Re: What about a TRUE GM The trade for portis was terrible, not only did we lose Champ, who is a far better player than Portis, we gave portis a huge contact for a slightly above average RB. __________________ Hail to the Redskins.

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