What about a TRUE GM

Daseal · 11-30-2005, 07:10 AM

Rumor has it texans will be canning Charlie Casserly who Texans fans are furious at for screwing up their franchise. I think they have a lot of talent that isn't quite refined yet. Anyhow, may be worth looking at. The second Holmgren in Seattle was stripped of his GM duties they started doing much better.

I'd like to see an offensive coordinator come in first, and a GM right behind him. Let Gibbs motivate the players and over-see everything. Player motivation is his forte.

Hog1 · 11-30-2005, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Rumor has it texans will be canning Charlie Casserly who Texans fans are furious at for screwing up their franchise. I think they have a lot of talent that isn't quite refined yet. Anyhow, may be worth looking at. The second Holmgren in Seattle was stripped of his GM duties they started doing much better.

I'd like to see an offensive coordinator come in first, and a GM right behind him. Let Gibbs motivate the players and over-see everything. Player motivation is his forte.

While Casserly had much success in DC, and is an amazing story, he hasn't had much good to talk about in Houston. Hard to say what the porblem is, but the ownership group is a good one. Maybe Casserly don't have IT

dmek25 · 11-30-2005, 07:54 AM

we are getting better.how about these 2 scenararios,c casserly comes back next year as gm,and m martz comes back as offensive coordinator?i for one would love this

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-30-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

we are getting better.how about these 2 scenararios,c casserly comes back next year as gm,and m martz comes back as offensive coordinator?i for one would love this

I would like to see Martz back here as the OC. I have the utmost respect for most of our coaching staff, but Breux hasn't proved all that much to me.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Taylor was not an obvious choice. Taylor and Winslow are both fantastic players with tremendous talent. Taylor was billed as the next Ronnie Lott whereas Winslow was said to be the best TE prospect in the history of the draft.

I dont see how it was even a question of who they were going to draft. They needed D help. especially where Taylor plays. Winslow, TE can be found anywhere. Safties with Taylors size, speed, and ability are one in 10 year thing. And dont say look at Roy Williams in Dallas. He has no where near the speed Taylor has ,and cannot cover guys like Taylor can. TE, look at Cooley, he has awesome hands and probably fits better than Winslow wood anyway. Cooley is probably more football knowlegable which Gibbs said the H-back has to know everyplay, every shift, basically know as much as the QB in the offense. Sorry, but I disagree w/ your opinion, but its all good.

Mattyk · 11-30-2005, 09:40 AM

Ask the Bengals how easy it is to take first rounders, they had high first rounders for a about a decade and managed to F them all up.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I don't think its crazy to state the truth. The fact of the matter is most experts thought we were taking Winslow for multiple reasons. One of those reasons being he would be a perfect fit as Gibb's "H Back". As it turned out our GM brain trust realized we could get Cooley in the 3rd round to fill that void.. That my friend is what having a good draft is all about.

I am just going through all of these today )11/30/2005) sorry for not getting in yesterday evening. Anyway, look at the draft the past two seasons, out of 14 picks and multiple free agent pickup of nondrafted players, how many acually play. 3!!! Cooley, Rogers, Taylor. that leaves 11 drafted players, not even counting the draft picks we threw away. Non of these other drafted players even play special teams. The lineman they picked up in the draft last year, that were suppose to be really good finds, stink!! They have had questionable drafts Well, questionable after the 1st round. still I think last years draft was questionable. Moving up, giving a 2nd or a 3rd rounder, plus next years #1 for a guy that was going to be there in the 2nd round. And he is still #3 on the depth chart. Wouldn't you think if you drafter a QB in the 1st round he may be atleast #2 on the depth chart. And why promise all this crap to Ramsey, work all offseason with him do all the things they did, then turn around and draft a QB, which is basically drafted on 1 year of experience in college. The guy had 1 good year in college, and basically he had two all americans behind him he could hand the ball of to.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Why are we talking about the front office structure?

Guys, one of our losses occurred because a side judge decided he'd throw up his arms, signaling that a two-point conversion was good despite the fact that he clearly couldn't see whether Alstott was in or not.

Another loss occurred because the refs don't know how to interpret the tuck rule properly. When Plummer pulled the ball back down, the throwing motion ended when the ball hit his other hand. But the refs called it an incomplete pass instead of awarding a safety.

We should be 7-4 right now. And besides, how close have we come on several other losses?

Ask yourselves this:

1) Is the team improving under Gibbs? I'd say yes. We're much better than last year.
2) What personnel moves are CAUSING us to lose games?

We're improving, and we're better than our record shows. Want a good stat? Here is the record of our opponents this year:

Against the Skins: 6-5
Against Everyone Else: 65-45

It's a tough ass schedule we're playing. We're getting better. Don't mess with progress.

Lets look, are we better in a two year span with Gibbs than the previous two year span with Spurrier, NO!!! Exactly the same records. So are we getting better, How can you say yes. We are definately regressing as the season goes on. We are averaging a point or so more than last year on offense. And our Defense is horrible compared to last year.

What moves are costing us. Well, drafting a corner and QB in first round when you could have gotten a good young, physical, WR for our #2 guy. Or drafted a good DE or DT that could help get some pressure on the QB. Then saved our #2 pick, drafted a corner then. Maybe intrusted the guy we had back at QB instead of sending our #2 pick, plus a #1 from next year to draft a QB who had one good year, and is still #3 on our depth chart. We still have a need for a "good" MLB. Marshall is pretty good, but he is a OLB playing middle. any more questions. Oh, and stop bringing the refs into our losing. We turned the ball over multiple times in denver, allowed Bell to run all over top of us and to allow a 1st year QB making his 3rd start sit back and pick us apart and put 35 points up, thats why we lost that game, Not the refs!!

FirstandTen · 11-30-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I am just going through all of these today )11/30/2005) sorry for not getting in yesterday evening. Anyway, look at the draft the past two seasons, out of 14 picks and multiple free agent pickup of nondrafted players, how many acually play. 3!!! Cooley, Rogers, Taylor. that leaves 11 drafted players, not even counting the draft picks we threw away. Non of these other drafted players even play special teams. The lineman they picked up in the draft last year, that were suppose to be really good finds, stink!! They have had questionable drafts Well, questionable after the 1st round. still I think last years draft was questionable. Moving up, giving a 2nd or a 3rd rounder, plus next years #1 for a guy that was going to be there in the 2nd round. And he is still #3 on the depth chart. Wouldn't you think if you drafter a QB in the 1st round he may be atleast #2 on the depth chart. And why promise all this crap to Ramsey, work all offseason with him do all the things they did, then turn around and draft a QB, which is basically drafted on 1 year of experience in college. The guy had 1 good year in college, and basically he had two all americans behind him he could hand the ball of to.

Don't worry, Campbell will be #2 on the chart next year. Who cares what the dept chart says at this point.. If were out of it in a few weeks do u honestly think they will put Ramsey in...

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

They are getting better...anyone who can't see they are getting better is not watching the games and looking at only the record.

As for the GM/scouting department...I think you need to judge a team on how well they do in the later rounds of a draft. Anyone can make a top 10 pick and be right more times than not. You can read Mel Kipers book and pretty much predict the top 10 of a draft with 80% certainty. The fact of the matter is that since Danny & Vinny have been on board the Redskins have found very few gems in the later rounds where true talent evaluaters flex their muscles...perhaps that is why those picks are so undervalued by the team now and handed out like candy. If the skins were finding a Tom Brady or Joe Jacoby or Russ Grimm with those picks every couple of years then the team would start to value them more.

Exactly the reason you need a GM. You can not continue year after year throwing away picks and building through free agency. You can not build a team of chemistry, and cohesion by doing that. Look at the teams competing for playoffs now , and previous winners of super bowls in the past 4 years, they all build through the draft, and MAYBE add 1, or 2 at most, free agents to put them over the top. Not 5 or 6 free agents every year.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Ask the Bengals how easy it is to take first rounders, they had high first rounders for a about a decade and managed to F them all up.

That was the owner who didn't put players around those first rounders. Now look and see what is going on in Cincinatti. Good team, young talent, and an owner who made a pledge to make the team better by handing everything over the coach and GM.

FirstandTen · 11-30-2005, 09:58 AM

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 10:13 AM

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

FirstandTen · 11-30-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

I thought we were discussing the current management with Gibbs?

irish · 11-30-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

I think the difference is not so much that the personnel decisions are better under Gibbs, I think its more that the decisions being made by Gibbs are being supported by the owner and not over-ruled (remember Jeff George) or circumvented which has allowed Gibbs to assemble the type of team he wants/needs. I just dont think that Marty or OBC had this front office support.

11-30-2005, 07:10 AM	#31
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 30 Posts: 8,055	Re: What about a TRUE GM Rumor has it texans will be canning Charlie Casserly who Texans fans are furious at for screwing up their franchise. I think they have a lot of talent that isn't quite refined yet. Anyhow, may be worth looking at. The second Holmgren in Seattle was stripped of his GM duties they started doing much better. I'd like to see an offensive coordinator come in first, and a GM right behind him. Let Gibbs motivate the players and over-see everything. Player motivation is his forte. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

11-30-2005, 07:54 AM	#33
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 51 Posts: 10,438	Re: What about a TRUE GM we are getting better.how about these 2 scenararios,c casserly comes back next year as gm,and m martz comes back as offensive coordinator?i for one would love this

11-30-2005, 09:40 AM	#36
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,652	Re: What about a TRUE GM Ask the Bengals how easy it is to take first rounders, they had high first rounders for a about a decade and managed to F them all up.

11-30-2005, 09:58 AM	#42
FirstandTen Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bristow VA Age: 36 Posts: 254	Re: What about a TRUE GM I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

11-30-2005, 10:13 AM	#43
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 38 Posts: 1,788	Re: What about a TRUE GM I know we all love Joe. And its hard to question a guy who has won as much as he has, and is in the Hall. To say this organization is in any better shape now than a couple of years ago is just not correct. Yes, Joe has brought in a sence of comradory amongst the players, and the team seams to play with more heart, which is a great thing to see. But from an organiztional stand point it still stinks. We have the same people making decisions on players and drafts. Vinny Cerato is a yes man, nothing more. Pepper Rogers, how is he even qualified? other than to say, Yes Dan, thats a great move! Fact is, since 1999-2000 its been the same story year in and year out. If they rated teams off season moves, we would get an A+ on paper. But they are just not panning out on the field. They fielded a disfunctional team, with a bunch of ME first player in 2000,which on paper was crowned Super Bowl Champs before the season started. When Marty came in, that was actually the first time we started looking like we knew what the hell we were doing. He fired Vinny, dropped players that we ME first, forced one into retirement(Deion). Although he was acting as GM which I never agree on. Then, Danny couldn't accept the fact of not being able to do what he did best. Sign big names to huge stupid contracts and fired Marty. The one time we had something going, even after finishing a tough schedule with Tony Banks at QB we finished 8-3 and had a promising future. Then we all know what happened after that. He got another yes man in Spurrier, and brought all his buddies back to make all decisions. Since then we are 7-9, which by the way is our best season in 4 years, and was the team Marty had in place with the exception of a player or two. then 5-11, 6-10, and now probably 6-10 or 7-9. This organization is good at one thing, creating spin. They can spin their way out of alot of things and make us believe next year is the year. we are only a year away from the playoffs or something bigger. Just look around the NFL and tell me what teams are vying for the playoffs every single year. Look at what they have in place, and look at what we have in place. Look at teams on the way up, and look at us. We do not go up, at all. we are the same mediocore team year after year. 1999 we went to playoffs. that was a team that was not built by Dan and yes men, it was cook, Norv and the GM. Since then 8-8,8-8,7-9,5-11,6-10,and no better this year. does that look like an organization in the right direction? or an organization spinning their wheels in mud?

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What about a TRUE GM

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