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Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

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Old 11-30-2005, 10:14 PM   #16
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=44deisel44]
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Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net
Right.....I always say show me a good loser...I'll show you a loser! But come on now....2nd year for GIBBS.....Give me a break...We have improved. NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
If you were a salesman and u had improved but didnt meet ur quota what would happen to u??? improvement is fine ..but its not meeting the goals.... i think we can still make the playoffs and i pray we do.... i just dont like brunell sorry....and i want gibbs tougher but i love the man
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:21 PM   #17
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deisel44
If you were a salesman and u had improved but didnt meet ur quota what would happen to u??? improvement is fine ..but its not meeting the goals.... i think we can still make the playoffs and i pray we do.... i just dont like brunell sorry....and i want gibbs tougher but i love the man
The difference is that usually salepeople aren't expected to be a top salesman when they are still learning the ropes. I will give Gibbs more time to get reacclimated.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:22 PM   #18
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

BTW, everyone I am sorry if I contributed to bringing up the Ramsey-Brunell debate again. I never intended to do so.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:26 PM   #19
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]
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Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

The difference is that usually salepeople aren't expected to be a top salesman when they are still learning the ropes. I will give Gibbs more time to get reacclimated.
I posted in another thread that i would give gibbs one more year...but i havent given up on ramsey like so many others have and Mr Auburn wont be ready next year ...
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:00 PM   #20
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]
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Originally Posted by 44deisel44
true but why does parcells win in his 1st or second year?????????
Because Parcells hasn't been away from the game in over a decade.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:03 PM   #21
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deisel44
If you were a salesman and u had improved but didnt meet ur quota what would happen to u??? improvement is fine ..but its not meeting the goals.... i think we can still make the playoffs and i pray we do.... i just dont like brunell sorry....and i want gibbs tougher but i love the man
What goals do you have for this team? Maybe the goals aren't realistic. By signing Gibbs to a five year deal, this tells me that Gibbs has five years to get this team turned around. I'm sure it's not going to take Gibbs all of those years to turn this team into a winner, but firing Gibbs after this season would be ignorant.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:42 PM   #22
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=railcon56@comcast.net]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deisel44
true but why does parcells win in his 1st or second year?????????
he went 10-6, then proceeded to go 6-10, it wa a wasted year cause he didn't bother getting talent between years 1 and 2 thinking his team was better than it actually was. most coaches come to a team and flop or put up bad records for years as they find their players... the bengals went 8-8 two years and now its finally paying off for them. Either your expectations were too high or patience is at a premium.

We're a MUCH better team than last year, and hopefully we'll be better next year and (with the help of a much easier schedule) win more games.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:12 AM   #23
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=skinsguy]
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Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Because Parcells hasn't been away from the game in over a decade.
i don't buy that excuse. You don't lose all of your knowledge of football in a decade of being away from the game. Football is still the same as it was in 1992. Sure, the cap and personnel may change things, but when it comes to actual game play and preparing the team, if you've got the fundamentals down, your chances are much better.

Right now, this team is not adhering to one of the fundamentals -- play 4 complete quarters.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:26 AM   #24
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]
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Originally Posted by skinsguy

i don't buy that excuse. You don't lose all of your knowledge of football in a decade of being away from the game. Football is still the same as it was in 1992. Sure, the cap and personnel may change things, but when it comes to actual game play and preparing the team, if you've got the fundamentals down, your chances are much better.

Right now, this team is not adhering to one of the fundamentals -- play 4 complete quarters.
Obviously, I agree that the team isn't adhering to one of the fundamentals --playing 4 quarters. At least they haven't been doing so recently; they managed to do so early in the season (i.e. the Dallas game).

But, to say that football hasn't changed since 1992 is (IMHO) wrong. Defenses are so much faster and blitz far more often with far more players. As Jansen said last offseason, we ran a 1992 offense last year. Or, as Portis said, the Browns knew exactly what was coming. What obviously worked so well in 1992 hasn't been working recently. By the same token, offenses have changed considerably since 1992. Everyone (defense and offense) on the field bigger, stronger, and faster.

Just like the jump from college to the pros is so difficult for so many talented rookie quarterbacks, I imagine there is a similar learning curve for coaches who are coming from a 1992 league to today's league. I'm willing to give Gibbs (basically a 1st round, 2nd season coach) another season to adjust before I abandon him.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:53 AM   #25
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

i don't see how we can blame Brunell for our record. True, he has lost fumbles and gotten sacks, but he's won us games (see Dallas), he's vastly improved over last year, he throws the ball away instead of just taking the sack, he's proven he can still run when he needs to, and he's been an efficient qb. Ramsey has shown a penchant for taking sacks, making bad decisions, and in his third season, didn't show he was capable. The better qb has the job, and i believe we still have this year and at least next year before we start Campbell. it takes time for rookie qbs to become starting caliber. Just look at Carson Palmer. Look at the monster season he's having. Jason Campbell has the tools to be a great qb, he just needs time. Brunell will give us enough time for that to happen. There are a number of things that have contributed to our losses this year, and Brunell isn't the biggest factor.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:59 AM   #26
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

Well I'll say this about the Ramsey and Brunell thing...
First Ramsey is from Tulane..right down the street from where I was raised so I like the guy anyway...but he has proven not to be the answer so to speak. Truly he has never really been given a chance to lead the team take his lumps for a whole year or two, learn a system with the same coach and then see where he was. Brunell is not getting any younger so if we don't get someone who can be with us for a while and produce we are going to continue to have trouble. We have an owner who is not very patient and he truly is the cause of some of this. The Redskins have not had a consistent QB since Joe Theismann went down...you know with teams like the Packers (for now) you know Brett is your guy every year...even the Texans have Carr every year...we have not had that and that a big part of the problem.

Then what's frustrating for me as a long time skins fan is everytime one coach realizes he needs a QB the coach leave and the situation starts all over.
Look when Norv came we started rebuilding...Shuler and Ferrotte were not the answer a blind man could see that. Ferrotte beat out Shuler I could have done that and I've never played organized ball. When Turner got sick of Gus here comes Trent Green...(gee isn't he with stable team now?) We should have kept him....Then the ownership change...which was another issue....Turner got to stay and in 1999 brought in Johnson...that was great...then Synder and his high price vets including Jeff George screwed everything up...so Johnson leaves and George is a head case....Finaly Marty cuts him George, has Banks finish the season and I'm sure he would have gotten a QB, but Snyder fires him after he's won 8 of 11 games with Tony Banks of all people. Then Spurrier comes in new scheme and philosopy and after giving is old QB Danny Wurffel a shot decides to get Patrick in....we see the product of all these changes and Patrick still has not developed yet...no real opportunity...then the legend returns trying to win now sticks with an injured Brunell until it's too late to make a playoff push and goes to Ramsey...good. Then he's benched after about a quarter in favor of Brunell still trying to win NOW. So Brunell will be fine I love the guy but if he gets hurt we are back in the same position again. And Campbell will also take time to develop..so unless we turn this around now (this season or next season if Joe stays) or unless Campbell just comes in throwing strikes I'm afraid it still may get worse before it gets better unless someone in the front office wakes up and gets things together. Then they have to do it fast because Gibbs may have one more year he'll work his contract, maybe two before we have a new coach, new system and everything else and if Dan Synder doesn't like the results of the new administration he'll fire them or interfer too much...more inconsistency and changes and we still don't have a playoff spot much less a superbowl appreance.
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Old 12-01-2005, 02:25 AM   #27
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooby
i don't see how we can blame Brunell for our record. True, he has lost fumbles and gotten sacks, but he's won us games (see Dallas), he's vastly improved over last year, he throws the ball away instead of just taking the sack, he's proven he can still run when he needs to, and he's been an efficient qb. Ramsey has shown a penchant for taking sacks, making bad decisions, and in his third season, didn't show he was capable. The better qb has the job, and i believe we still have this year and at least next year before we start Campbell. it takes time for rookie qbs to become starting caliber. Just look at Carson Palmer. Look at the monster season he's having. Jason Campbell has the tools to be a great qb, he just needs time. Brunell will give us enough time for that to happen. There are a number of things that have contributed to our losses this year, and Brunell isn't the biggest factor.
The nature of his position dictates that Brunell will always get more blame than deserved and more credit than deserved during a win. It's just the way it is. If Mike Alstott had been correctly ruled down before he crossed the goal-line, if Portis hadn't fumbled deep in our own territory against the Raiders, and if Rabach hadn't committed a crucial holding penalty in field goal range against the Raiders we could very well be 8-3. And Brunell wouldn't be any more responsible for those wins than he is for the three losses. But I'm sure that if we did win, then he would get that extra credit for those wins.
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Old 12-01-2005, 06:35 AM   #28
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

im not sure how anyone can evaluate patrick ramsey on his time in washington so far.he should have at least been given 1 full season in coach gibbs system to see if he has what it takes to make it in this league.we do know that the kid is tough as nails from the spurrier experiment.coach gibbs seems like he waits for #11 to make a mistake just so he can yank him.dont try telling me he has been givin a fair tryout.least we forget,he is still young,was a first round pick,and if we do trade him,to get fair value for him,or at the very least ,then hold on to him.
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Old 12-01-2005, 08:00 AM   #29
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

See thats what im saying...i mean people say cut your losses and get rid of Ramsey...without realizing that Ramsey could still have value to the Redskins!!

Gibbs doesnt like to play young QB's so ive heard. And Unless he turns into a Ben Roethlisberger...unlikely...if Brunell gets hurt out there next season...we could really be in for a tough time if cambell gets thrown in there before he is ready. To me risking throwing away the entire season...if Brunell is injured is not worth obtaining just any mid-round pick.

So if they can get real good value for him...ie maybe Abraham, or a pick that could contribute to the team positively for next year...then it is worth...CONSIDERING the risk of trading Ramsey. But i definatley do not think that we shold just get rid of him to get rid of him.

And in terms of us having drafted our QB of the future in Cambell...well hopefully he will be good...but just look at the Chargers situation...it was only after Rivers...there QB of the future was drafted that Mr. Brees went from being considered a bust to a pro bowler. Even after everyone in Sandiego had given up on him...

And that is where Patrick Ramsey just cannot be judged yet... The number of QB's that come in this league and are good right away...is minimal...ie Roethlisberger and i dont know who else. Normally QB's have to go through growing pains...

And the whole point is...that because he never was given a prolonged opportunity to play...we cannot know if Ramsey's struggles...the holding the ball too long...the interceptions...etc...were growing pains...or simply that he was not good enough.

So...in the hope that they were growing pains...i would be inclined to hold onto him for next year...

Maybe if Brunell gets banged up at some point this year...or if we are out of the playoffhunt Gibbs could throw ramsey in there...and We'll see where he's at... Perhaps we could even give cambell some game experience. If nothing else playing Ramsey could at least serve to increase his trade value if he plays well...and maybe even open up a quarterback competition over the summer...which i would not be opposed to...and Brunell himself said was always a healthy thing.

I really like Patrick Ramsey...i think his good team-first attitude is rare among today's athletes...and maybe with time he could learn to be a great leader much like brunell...we'll see.....

Just dont give the kid away for a warm six pack...
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Old 12-01-2005, 08:27 AM   #30
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Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

I have been a huge Ramsey fan since the Ole Ball Coach drafted him. I think he has the smart and definately the arm to succeed in the NFL. He has never gotten a fair shake on trying to grab the starting position. The changing QBs every 3 games w/ spurriers first year was a joke, then the 2nd year Ramsey showed true promise. Until team blitz his head and spurrier would not adjust WR routes to hot routes when teams blitzed. Plus Ramsey is a tough kid. He took more beatings than any QB I have seen in a long time. Regarding the QB situation, Ramsey will be gone after this season. He either gets traded to Baltimore or the Jets, maybe Cleveland or Detroit. There are many teams out there that believe Ramsey can play. We can not have two first round picks sitting on the bench, that would be a complete waiste. I also believe it was a big waste on signing Brunell. I think he has played remarkably well this year, but if you are not going to playoffs, what difference does it make if you go 8-8, or 0-16, you dont make it either way. I believe if we lose a game or two from here on out, I think you have to take your pick of who is going to be your QB, Ramsey or Campbell which I think Joe thinks its going to be Campbell. Brunell is getting paid 40 some million dollars, and its a joke. This is just one of the moves I think was made in haist, and if we had some people that would tell Joe that maybe this guy isnt' right for us we may not have gone after him. We could have gotten Garcia for alot less, who his more athletic and younger that Brunell. Its always alot what if and shoulda woulda coulda crap, every year. We will just have to wait and see what happens, I am sure it will be something everyone of us will be talking about.
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