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Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

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Old 12-12-2005, 12:49 PM   #46
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Re: Qb

In my opinion...there should not be blind allegience to Brunell. There should only be blind allegience to the redskins.

As of now i would agree that pulling Brunell would be premature. However...noone can argue the fact that lately Brunell has been performing at a much lower level than earlier in the season. The past two weeks he has come out and looked like a mess in the first half. And is the second half of the season...he has alltogether played somewhat lesser football than he was playing earlier.

i think Gibbs definately should start him for the Dallas game. However, i do believe that his leash has gotten a bit tighter. If he comes out looking flat again...and we start losing...then i do not believe we should show some sort of blind allegience to Brunell just cause he has gotten us to wherever we are.

If Brunell is playing poorly next week...and the offense is not getting it done then we should consider something to give us a spark. The best alternative we have is Ramsey and he certainly has the arm...to get the offense moving. Now i am not saying it would work. Gibbs could put him in and we could very well lose anyway. But if Brunell wasnt gonna get it done for us...i think you have to do whatever you can to try to win the game.

If on the other hand his performance yesterday was an abberation...1 bad game...as many people seem to believe...and Brunell comes out and is playing fine next week, then great. Good for him and good for the skins. He stays in and this question is moot.

All im saying...is lets continue applying the best chance to win rule...in hopes of making the playoffs this year. If Brunell isnt giving us that next week...then Gibbs needs to consider making a change to help us out.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:16 PM   #47
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Re: Qb

That's the problem though - if we win, why pull Brunell? If we lose, it doesn't matter.

This is Brunell's season, and he will succeed or fail based on the entire year. If he plays well over the next three games, he will be the starter next year, even if we don't make the playoffs. If he plays mediocre, then, per spring tradition, there will be a QB controversy in DC, regardless of whether we make the playoffs.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:21 PM   #48
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLeurope
In my opinion...there should not be blind allegience to Brunell. There should only be blind allegience to the redskins.

As of now i would agree that pulling Brunell would be premature. However...noone can argue the fact that lately Brunell has been performing at a much lower level than earlier in the season. The past two weeks he has come out and looked like a mess in the first half. And is the second half of the season...he has alltogether played somewhat lesser football than he was playing earlier.

i think Gibbs definately should start him for the Dallas game. However, i do believe that his leash has gotten a bit tighter. If he comes out looking flat again...and we start losing...then i do not believe we should show some sort of blind allegience to Brunell just cause he has gotten us to wherever we are.

If Brunell is playing poorly next week...and the offense is not getting it done then we should consider something to give us a spark. The best alternative we have is Ramsey and he certainly has the arm...to get the offense moving. Now i am not saying it would work. Gibbs could put him in and we could very well lose anyway. But if Brunell wasnt gonna get it done for us...i think you have to do whatever you can to try to win the game.

If on the other hand his performance yesterday was an abberation...1 bad game...as many people seem to believe...and Brunell comes out and is playing fine next week, then great. Good for him and good for the skins. He stays in and this question is moot.

All im saying...is lets continue applying the best chance to win rule...in hopes of making the playoffs this year. If Brunell isnt giving us that next week...then Gibbs needs to consider making a change to help us out.
I just dont get it!! As stated previously Brunell is putting up pro-bowl numbers. 2K+ yards, 16 TD's and only up unitl yesterday 5 picks, thats 5 picks. best in the NFL. The fact Brunell isn't throwing for many yards and TDs now is because we have only 1 receiver. 2 people on our offense are threats, Moss and Cooley. The fact that we have still won those two games is a testiment to the running game and the desire to run the ball. Our D is alos playing at a level compared to last year and early this season. How anyone can think benching Brunell now is beyond me. The guy has gotton us to 7 wins, 35 points against the leagues #1 defense(at the time) and if the defense holds up against TB, Raiders and San Diego we are 10-3 or 9-4. How about all the plays made by Brunell by getting out of the pocket, running for first down, crucial first downs. Like Dallas, 3 and 27!! Brunell in alot of pollers mind is the come-back player of the year. I was not a fan of the Brunell signing or the yanking of Ramsey earlier in the year, but the guy has played his ass off, ALL SEASON. The fact that some people question whether he should be in or out is just crazy. I am not showing loyalty to Brunell, I am showing loyalty to MY team! Brunell is our best option, and the best person to have in there especially with what we are playing for.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:28 PM   #49
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by #56fanatic
I just dont get it!! As stated previously Brunell is putting up pro-bowl numbers. 2K+ yards, 16 TD's and only up unitl yesterday 5 picks, thats 5 picks. best in the NFL. The fact Brunell isn't throwing for many yards and TDs now is because we have only 1 receiver. 2 people on our offense are threats, Moss and Cooley. The fact that we have still won those two games is a testiment to the running game and the desire to run the ball. Our D is alos playing at a level compared to last year and early this season. How anyone can think benching Brunell now is beyond me. The guy has gotton us to 7 wins, 35 points against the leagues #1 defense(at the time) and if the defense holds up against TB, Raiders and San Diego we are 10-3 or 9-4. How about all the plays made by Brunell by getting out of the pocket, running for first down, crucial first downs. Like Dallas, 3 and 27!! Brunell in alot of pollers mind is the come-back player of the year. I was not a fan of the Brunell signing or the yanking of Ramsey earlier in the year, but the guy has played his ass off, ALL SEASON. The fact that some people question whether he should be in or out is just crazy. I am not showing loyalty to Brunell, I am showing loyalty to MY team! Brunell is our best option, and the best person to have in there especially with what we are playing for.
Amen. Brunell is very limited in what he can do behind center also, and I think with more freedom to call audibles he would be even more effective.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:31 PM   #50
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Re: Qb

Oh yeah, and I don't think there's a popsicle's chance in hell that Joe Gibbs would voluntarily place our playoff hopes in the hands of Patrick Ramsey, especially with our play designs all being for a lefty QB. Remember last year how it took a game for Gibbs to realize you had to change the direction of the rollout when a right-handed QB comes in?
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:35 PM   #51
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by skindogger47
Oh yeah, and I don't think there's a popsicle's chance in hell that Joe Gibbs would voluntarily place our playoff hopes in the hands of Patrick Ramsey, especially with our play designs all being for a lefty QB. Remember last year how it took a game for Gibbs to realize you had to change the direction of the rollout when a right-handed QB comes in?
That's a very good point that hasn't been mentioned yet. Switching directions in 4 days of practice is probably not the best idea unless you absolutely have to. I don't think we are anywhere near that level of desperation.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:09 PM   #52
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Re: Qb

I agree with what you say for the most part #56 fanatic. Brunell overall has certainly exceeded my expectations for him this season (partly because they were so low after last year) but overall he has been pretty solid. And i do agree that you typically do not want to switch a QB heading into the final stretch when you are still fighting for a playoff spot.

My only caveat with this...is that what if Brunell isnt going to get us there??? Do you just let him come up short...and have us miss playoffs...or do you do something...like switch the QB's, which certainly isnt ideal at this point...but may provide some sort of spark.

i took the liberty to compare some of Brunells key stats from the first 6 games of the season to his stats in the past 7 games. Here are the results:

Brunell 1st 6 games: ......................................Brunell past 7 games:

Passer Rating: 98.7 .......................................Passer Rating: 71.4
Interceptions: 2 ...........................................Interce ptions: 6
Avg. Yards/game: 248.6 ................................Avg. Yards/game: 163.14
Fumbles: 3.................................................. . Fumbles: 8
Team record : 4-2 ........................................ Team Record: 3-4

Now i mean...i dont know what you guys think of this...but the numbers dont lie...he is simply not playing as well as he did earlier in the year.

Now a bunch of people have been saying..."well you cant place the blame on Brunells shoulders just because of playcalling problems and lack of receving threats, inconsistant offensive line play, and poor defensive play etc..." Fine...i agree...not all the blame should be placed on Brunell's shoulders. But can none of the blame be placed on his shoulders??

I mean i want to reiterate. I am NOT CALLING FOR GIBBS TO BENCH BRUNELL. However, i do believe that the top priority has to be the skins making the playoffs. And i also believe that Brunell's diminished play in the second half of the season has to some extent called into quesiton his ability to get the job done.

So at this point i would say its his job to lose. He is in my mind the unquestioned starter going into next week. However, because he has started off the past two weeks playing like crap against only modest competition I do believe he needs to show up to play in order to keep the job.

Thus...in conclusion...if Brunell shows up to play next week...win or lose...he deserves to keep the job...and i will support him as always as the redskins starting QB.

If Brunell comes out looking limp next week like he has the past two weeks...and the offense is going nowhere with him then Gibbs needs to make a call about whether or not Brunell is likely to get us the W. At this point in the season when there is no room for error...we cannot worry about loyalty to a player, or how it looks in the media or whatever...we need to do whatever we need to do to win THIS GAME (Please of please let them beat Dallas). Thus if Brunell doesnt look like he can get the job done Gibbs should pull him...and put in Ramsey... so that win or lose at least we will have done all that we could to win the game! That is my opinion.

Last edited by NFLeurope; 12-12-2005 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:12 PM   #53
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Ummm, no.

Ridiculous suggestion.
Um, he's talking about this because Brunell hurt his thumb against the Cards, maybe even broke it.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:15 PM   #54
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by Bozzy
Um, he's talking about this because Brunell hurt his thumb against the Cards, maybe even broke it.
Really?

Where does he say anything about his thumb?

Quote:
Aright...glad that we got the win despite a shitty performance. So...we are still in the playoff race...and the remaining games still are meaningful for us...

The question is...should Brunell be replaced for the Dallas game?

In my opinion i would not outright say Brunell should be replaced. But i do believe Gibbs ought to give Ramsey some snaps with the first team this week in addition to Brunell...and at least consider the possibility of a switch going into next week.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:18 PM   #55
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Re: Qb

Absurd...we are 13 games in. This team is going to sink or swim with Brunell at QB.

At least one of yesterdays interceptions was Cooley's fault for batting a catchable ball up into the air. Anyway, even if he threw 6 picks yesterday they would still not switch QB's at this point in the season with Dallas & NY on deck...
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:46 PM   #56
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLeurope
I agree with what you say for the most part #56 fanatic. Brunell overall has certainly exceeded my expectations for him this season (partly because they were so low after last year) but overall he has been pretty solid. And i do agree that you typically do not want to switch a QB heading into the final stretch when you are still fighting for a playoff spot.

My only caveat with this...is that what if Brunell isnt going to get us there??? Do you just let him come up short...and have us miss playoffs...or do you do something...like switch the QB's, which certainly isnt ideal at this point...but may provide some sort of spark.

i took the liberty to compare some of Brunells key stats from the first 6 games of the season to his stats in the past 7 games. Here are the results:

Brunell 1st 6 games: ......................................Brunell past 7 games:

Passer Rating: 98.7 .......................................Passer Rating: 71.4
Interceptions: 2 ...........................................Interce ptions: 6
Avg. Yards/game: 248.6 ................................Avg. Yards/game: 163.14
Fumbles: 3.................................................. . Fumbles: 8
Team record : 4-2 ........................................ Team Record: 3-4

Now i mean...i dont know what you guys think of this...but the numbers dont lie...he is simply not playing as well as he did earlier in the year.

Now a bunch of people have been saying..."well you cant place the blame on Brunells shoulders just because of playcalling problems and lack of receving threats, inconsistant offensive line play, and poor defensive play etc..." Fine...i agree...not all the blame should be placed on Brunell's shoulders. But can none of the blame be placed on his shoulders??

I mean i want to reiterate. I am NOT CALLING FOR GIBBS TO BENCH BRUNELL. However, i do believe that the top priority has to be the skins making the playoffs. And i also believe that Brunell's diminished play in the second half of the season has to some extent called into quesiton his ability to get the job done.

So at this point i would say its his job to lose. He is in my mind the unquestioned starter going into next week. However, because he has started off the past two weeks playing like crap against only modest competition I do believe he needs to show up to play in order to keep the job.

Thus...in conclusion...if Brunell shows up to play next week...win or lose...he deserves to keep the job...and i will support him as always as the redskins starting QB.

If Brunell comes out looking limp next week like he has the past two weeks...and the offense is going nowhere with him then Gibbs needs to make a call about whether or not Brunell is likely to get us the W. At this point in the season when there is no room for error...we cannot worry about loyalty to a player, or how it looks in the media or whatever...we need to do whatever we need to do to win THIS GAME (Please of please let them beat Dallas). Thus if Brunell doesnt look like he can get the job done Gibbs should pull him...and put in Ramsey... so that win or lose at least we will have done all that we could to win the game! That is my opinion.
All of your stats regarding yardage and passer rating goes with the fact that we have basically 1 receiver worth a damn. And he is getting double teams almost every play. Brunells rating has gone down due to the fact he throws balls away when he can not find an open receiver. We are also relying on Royal, Betts,Portis,Sellers on our #3 option, which is not a high percentage of catches. The interseptions(which of the six, 3 came yesterday) have to be looked at if they are all to blame on Brunell. Which they are not. The 1st pass Cooley should have caught, it was in his hands, the second one was an over throw, the 3rd one I believe Cooley should have undercut the safety instead of going behind him. That is a timing route and brunell was throwing to a spot and Cooley didn't get there. I cant recall the other 3 that have come in the other games, they may have been his fault, may not of been. Brunells quality of play may, by numbers,may have fallen off but his management of the game and overall play hasn't diminished as much as the support around him has. Lets face it, when your #2 guy cant get open, but for 1 catch max a game, and your #1 guy in constantly doubled your passing game is going to struggle. His passer rating, and completion percentage will start to even out over the next few games if we continue to try and run the ball as much as we have the last two weeks. This will limit the amount of throws by brunell and thus the amount of incompletions by throwing the ball away.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:59 PM   #57
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Re: Qb

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At the very least a defense would have to respect his speed and ability to get downfield. Granted if he can't catch the ball the D won't respect him for long, but maybe it'll work for a game, and as cliche as it is, we gotta take it one game at a time.

It doesn't seem to me that defenses really respect a deep passing game from us, it's not that our recievers can't get deep, but oppossing defenses know Brunell can't reach them, one of the commentators yesterday pointed that out on a pattern Farris ran, he said Farris was wide open but to far downfield for Brunell's arm to reach. Even if brunell could through a deep ball he has to put to much air under it to get it there, which allows DB's to recover. He's been very good with the short to intermediate passing game, but I think as defenses recognize this and adjust, it makes it harder and harder for our offense to function, those safties and LB's have to be forced to respect our downfield passing game we can't have them houvering around the line of scrimmage just teeing off on our running game.

I know Portis had a pretty nice day, but as usuall late in the game we couldn't run it, if it wasen't for a hurculeon effort by our offensive line pushing Portis forward for that last firstdown, we would have given the ball back again with less than 2 scores to beat us.
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:00 PM   #58
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Re: Qb

I'm tired of hearing how we only have one deep threat and Santana is always double teamed as if that's the problem with the offense. Patten was an above average deep threat in New England. He was a complete non-factor here. Give me a break. We have an elite running back and an elite reciever. Not to mention a great H-back. What do want a Pro Bowler at the #2 wr and another Pro Bowler at TE. If the QB was playing better he would obviously be taking advantage of double teams and defenses crowding the line. We obviously are not doing that! Brunell has been playing average football for two months. Look at the stats and look at the record! I don't think it's out of the question to question this average play.
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:14 PM   #59
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Re: Qb

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I'm tired of hearing how we only have one deep threat and Santana is always double teamed as if that's the problem with the offense. Patten was an above average deep threat in New England. He was a complete non-factor here. Give me a break. We have an elite running back and an elite reciever. Not to mention a great H-back. What do want a Pro Bowler at the #2 wr and another Pro Bowler at TE. If the QB was playing better he would obviously be taking advantage of double teams and defenses crowding the line. We obviously are not doing that! Brunell has been playing average football for two months. Look at the stats and look at the record! I don't think it's out of the question to question this average play.
AMEN been saying it all season... Now its too late 10 - 17 points all season and u wonder why we lost those 6 games... this is a great team and u get a high rating form throwing short passes all day... what can we do... if we score 10 against Dallas, NY Giants and the Eagles We will lose them all..
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:33 PM   #60
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net
AMEN been saying it all season... Now its too late 10 - 17 points all season and u wonder why we lost those 6 games... this is a great team and u get a high rating form throwing short passes all day... what can we do... if we score 10 against Dallas, NY Giants and the Eagles We will lose them all..
WOW u really hate it.
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