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Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

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Old 12-12-2005, 01:31 PM   #46
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Re: Qb

Oh yeah, and I don't think there's a popsicle's chance in hell that Joe Gibbs would voluntarily place our playoff hopes in the hands of Patrick Ramsey, especially with our play designs all being for a lefty QB. Remember last year how it took a game for Gibbs to realize you had to change the direction of the rollout when a right-handed QB comes in?
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:35 PM   #47
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by skindogger47
Oh yeah, and I don't think there's a popsicle's chance in hell that Joe Gibbs would voluntarily place our playoff hopes in the hands of Patrick Ramsey, especially with our play designs all being for a lefty QB. Remember last year how it took a game for Gibbs to realize you had to change the direction of the rollout when a right-handed QB comes in?
That's a very good point that hasn't been mentioned yet. Switching directions in 4 days of practice is probably not the best idea unless you absolutely have to. I don't think we are anywhere near that level of desperation.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:09 PM   #48
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Re: Qb

I agree with what you say for the most part #56 fanatic. Brunell overall has certainly exceeded my expectations for him this season (partly because they were so low after last year) but overall he has been pretty solid. And i do agree that you typically do not want to switch a QB heading into the final stretch when you are still fighting for a playoff spot.

My only caveat with this...is that what if Brunell isnt going to get us there??? Do you just let him come up short...and have us miss playoffs...or do you do something...like switch the QB's, which certainly isnt ideal at this point...but may provide some sort of spark.

i took the liberty to compare some of Brunells key stats from the first 6 games of the season to his stats in the past 7 games. Here are the results:

Brunell 1st 6 games: ......................................Brunell past 7 games:

Passer Rating: 98.7 .......................................Passer Rating: 71.4
Interceptions: 2 ...........................................Interce ptions: 6
Avg. Yards/game: 248.6 ................................Avg. Yards/game: 163.14
Fumbles: 3.................................................. . Fumbles: 8
Team record : 4-2 ........................................ Team Record: 3-4

Now i mean...i dont know what you guys think of this...but the numbers dont lie...he is simply not playing as well as he did earlier in the year.

Now a bunch of people have been saying..."well you cant place the blame on Brunells shoulders just because of playcalling problems and lack of receving threats, inconsistant offensive line play, and poor defensive play etc..." Fine...i agree...not all the blame should be placed on Brunell's shoulders. But can none of the blame be placed on his shoulders??

I mean i want to reiterate. I am NOT CALLING FOR GIBBS TO BENCH BRUNELL. However, i do believe that the top priority has to be the skins making the playoffs. And i also believe that Brunell's diminished play in the second half of the season has to some extent called into quesiton his ability to get the job done.

So at this point i would say its his job to lose. He is in my mind the unquestioned starter going into next week. However, because he has started off the past two weeks playing like crap against only modest competition I do believe he needs to show up to play in order to keep the job.

Thus...in conclusion...if Brunell shows up to play next week...win or lose...he deserves to keep the job...and i will support him as always as the redskins starting QB.

If Brunell comes out looking limp next week like he has the past two weeks...and the offense is going nowhere with him then Gibbs needs to make a call about whether or not Brunell is likely to get us the W. At this point in the season when there is no room for error...we cannot worry about loyalty to a player, or how it looks in the media or whatever...we need to do whatever we need to do to win THIS GAME (Please of please let them beat Dallas). Thus if Brunell doesnt look like he can get the job done Gibbs should pull him...and put in Ramsey... so that win or lose at least we will have done all that we could to win the game! That is my opinion.

Last edited by NFLeurope; 12-12-2005 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:12 PM   #49
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Ummm, no.

Ridiculous suggestion.
Um, he's talking about this because Brunell hurt his thumb against the Cards, maybe even broke it.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:15 PM   #50
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by Bozzy
Um, he's talking about this because Brunell hurt his thumb against the Cards, maybe even broke it.
Really?

Where does he say anything about his thumb?

Quote:
Aright...glad that we got the win despite a shitty performance. So...we are still in the playoff race...and the remaining games still are meaningful for us...

The question is...should Brunell be replaced for the Dallas game?

In my opinion i would not outright say Brunell should be replaced. But i do believe Gibbs ought to give Ramsey some snaps with the first team this week in addition to Brunell...and at least consider the possibility of a switch going into next week.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:18 PM   #51
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Re: Qb

Absurd...we are 13 games in. This team is going to sink or swim with Brunell at QB.

At least one of yesterdays interceptions was Cooley's fault for batting a catchable ball up into the air. Anyway, even if he threw 6 picks yesterday they would still not switch QB's at this point in the season with Dallas & NY on deck...
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:46 PM   #52
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLeurope
I agree with what you say for the most part #56 fanatic. Brunell overall has certainly exceeded my expectations for him this season (partly because they were so low after last year) but overall he has been pretty solid. And i do agree that you typically do not want to switch a QB heading into the final stretch when you are still fighting for a playoff spot.

My only caveat with this...is that what if Brunell isnt going to get us there??? Do you just let him come up short...and have us miss playoffs...or do you do something...like switch the QB's, which certainly isnt ideal at this point...but may provide some sort of spark.

i took the liberty to compare some of Brunells key stats from the first 6 games of the season to his stats in the past 7 games. Here are the results:

Brunell 1st 6 games: ......................................Brunell past 7 games:

Passer Rating: 98.7 .......................................Passer Rating: 71.4
Interceptions: 2 ...........................................Interce ptions: 6
Avg. Yards/game: 248.6 ................................Avg. Yards/game: 163.14
Fumbles: 3.................................................. . Fumbles: 8
Team record : 4-2 ........................................ Team Record: 3-4

Now i mean...i dont know what you guys think of this...but the numbers dont lie...he is simply not playing as well as he did earlier in the year.

Now a bunch of people have been saying..."well you cant place the blame on Brunells shoulders just because of playcalling problems and lack of receving threats, inconsistant offensive line play, and poor defensive play etc..." Fine...i agree...not all the blame should be placed on Brunell's shoulders. But can none of the blame be placed on his shoulders??

I mean i want to reiterate. I am NOT CALLING FOR GIBBS TO BENCH BRUNELL. However, i do believe that the top priority has to be the skins making the playoffs. And i also believe that Brunell's diminished play in the second half of the season has to some extent called into quesiton his ability to get the job done.

So at this point i would say its his job to lose. He is in my mind the unquestioned starter going into next week. However, because he has started off the past two weeks playing like crap against only modest competition I do believe he needs to show up to play in order to keep the job.

Thus...in conclusion...if Brunell shows up to play next week...win or lose...he deserves to keep the job...and i will support him as always as the redskins starting QB.

If Brunell comes out looking limp next week like he has the past two weeks...and the offense is going nowhere with him then Gibbs needs to make a call about whether or not Brunell is likely to get us the W. At this point in the season when there is no room for error...we cannot worry about loyalty to a player, or how it looks in the media or whatever...we need to do whatever we need to do to win THIS GAME (Please of please let them beat Dallas). Thus if Brunell doesnt look like he can get the job done Gibbs should pull him...and put in Ramsey... so that win or lose at least we will have done all that we could to win the game! That is my opinion.
All of your stats regarding yardage and passer rating goes with the fact that we have basically 1 receiver worth a damn. And he is getting double teams almost every play. Brunells rating has gone down due to the fact he throws balls away when he can not find an open receiver. We are also relying on Royal, Betts,Portis,Sellers on our #3 option, which is not a high percentage of catches. The interseptions(which of the six, 3 came yesterday) have to be looked at if they are all to blame on Brunell. Which they are not. The 1st pass Cooley should have caught, it was in his hands, the second one was an over throw, the 3rd one I believe Cooley should have undercut the safety instead of going behind him. That is a timing route and brunell was throwing to a spot and Cooley didn't get there. I cant recall the other 3 that have come in the other games, they may have been his fault, may not of been. Brunells quality of play may, by numbers,may have fallen off but his management of the game and overall play hasn't diminished as much as the support around him has. Lets face it, when your #2 guy cant get open, but for 1 catch max a game, and your #1 guy in constantly doubled your passing game is going to struggle. His passer rating, and completion percentage will start to even out over the next few games if we continue to try and run the ball as much as we have the last two weeks. This will limit the amount of throws by brunell and thus the amount of incompletions by throwing the ball away.
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:14 PM   #53
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Re: Qb

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Originally Posted by wilsowilso
I'm tired of hearing how we only have one deep threat and Santana is always double teamed as if that's the problem with the offense. Patten was an above average deep threat in New England. He was a complete non-factor here. Give me a break. We have an elite running back and an elite reciever. Not to mention a great H-back. What do want a Pro Bowler at the #2 wr and another Pro Bowler at TE. If the QB was playing better he would obviously be taking advantage of double teams and defenses crowding the line. We obviously are not doing that! Brunell has been playing average football for two months. Look at the stats and look at the record! I don't think it's out of the question to question this average play.
AMEN been saying it all season... Now its too late 10 - 17 points all season and u wonder why we lost those 6 games... this is a great team and u get a high rating form throwing short passes all day... what can we do... if we score 10 against Dallas, NY Giants and the Eagles We will lose them all..
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:33 PM   #54
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net
AMEN been saying it all season... Now its too late 10 - 17 points all season and u wonder why we lost those 6 games... this is a great team and u get a high rating form throwing short passes all day... what can we do... if we score 10 against Dallas, NY Giants and the Eagles We will lose them all..
WOW u really hate it.
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:48 PM   #55
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Re: Qb

Guys we really need Thrash back this week. I thought he made some great plays against Dallas in Week 2. As best I can remember Patten did nothing that game, it was Moss (of course) Thrash and Cooley. I would also like to see us run well. However Larry Johnson was a monster and the Chiefs still lost, so who knows what formula will work this week?
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:00 PM   #56
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by scowan
Guys we really need Thrash back this week. I thought he made some great plays against Dallas in Week 2. As best I can remember Patten did nothing that game, it was Moss (of course) Thrash and Cooley. I would also like to see us run well. However Larry Johnson was a monster and the Chiefs still lost, so who knows what formula will work this week?
Thrash has been very clutch on 3rd downs the times he's played. he's the closest thing we have to a possession receiver who we can put at risk over the middle (i think Jacobs would just shatter). we definitely need him back for this last stretch.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:31 PM   #57
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Re: Qb

I have said it in another thread, and I'll say it in this one. I am sure that Brunell could risk some passes by throwing into double coverage and allowing Moss to go up and fight for the ball. That is not was Gibbs wants. Example given was why steve smith is having such a good year with no #2. Look at Delhomes ints. He has thrown almost triple the amount Brunell has thrown. And that is from iladvised passes trying to force the ball. Brunell is not going to do that, he is going to take the high percentage, dump it off and go to the next play. Also not put our defense in bad positions. Our offense is not geared to put big plays up, we grind it out, keep the others team offense on the sideline and our D fresh. I may not have worked out some games, but for the most part it is. I would bet we are in the top of the league in time of possession compared to our opponents. Coming into the Cards game Brunell had thrown 5 picks, count em 5, that was best in the NFL, now he has 8, after a bad game and that is still one of the tops in the league. this is what Brunell is told to do, dont' win the game, but dont lose the game either. Take the shots when they are there, but dont try and force something that isn't there either.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:52 PM   #58
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by #56fanatic
I have said it in another thread, and I'll say it in this one. I am sure that Brunell could risk some passes by throwing into double coverage and allowing Moss to go up and fight for the ball. That is not was Gibbs wants. Example given was why steve smith is having such a good year with no #2. Look at Delhomes ints. He has thrown almost triple the amount Brunell has thrown. And that is from iladvised passes trying to force the ball. Brunell is not going to do that, he is going to take the high percentage, dump it off and go to the next play. Also not put our defense in bad positions. Our offense is not geared to put big plays up, we grind it out, keep the others team offense on the sideline and our D fresh. I may not have worked out some games, but for the most part it is. I would bet we are in the top of the league in time of possession compared to our opponents. Coming into the Cards game Brunell had thrown 5 picks, count em 5, that was best in the NFL, now he has 8, after a bad game and that is still one of the tops in the league. this is what Brunell is told to do, dont' win the game, but dont lose the game either. Take the shots when they are there, but dont try and force something that isn't there either.
It's not like Smith hasn't had several average games as well. But you're right, the mantra as I believe it should be is put the game in the hands of Portis and the D.

As for not trying to force it...

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Old 12-12-2005, 06:32 PM   #59
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Re: Qb

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstandTen
WOW u really hate it.
no we need to score points..no one would beat the skins if we could score 21+ points but 10 , 3, 17 wont win it
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:57 PM   #60
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Re: Qb

My honest opinion...is that we have the offensive weapons we need at receiver. I really think that with Moss, Taylor Jacobs, patten, and Thrash...we really could have a pretty good receiving corps. And the only conclusion i can come to is that the biggest problem stems from the guy trying to get them the ball. I posted Brunells' stats from the second half of this season. I dont know where those stats fall compared to other starters in the league. But they cant be very high. Everyone can make all the excuses they want...but at the end of the day all teams have to deal with adversity...and many have had to deal with much more adveristy than the skins (See Green Bay). They still need to find a way to get it done on offense.

I am not refuting what people are saying about Brunell just doing what he is asked to do. But i also believe that what Brunell is asked to do by the coaches is a function of what he is capable of doing. I really do believe deep down that if Patrick Ramsey were the starting QB we would have a much more wide open passing attack. As soon as he came in in the new york game for example...you know the one we got blown out in...he was immediately able to find some receivers downfield...ie Taylor Jacobs...whom Brunell hadnt found all game.

This is not to say that the skins would have a better chance of winning with Ramsey at the helm. I dont know that to be true. Cause while i believe Ramsey would open the offense alot more...i also believe that Brunell at this point probably is better at managing a game. And in general at avoiding costly turnovers etc...

But going forward here...into next year...and especially into the playoffs (keeping my fingers crossed)...i think it is gonna be neccessary for our skins to ask more of the QB than simply not losing the game for us. Against the better teams we are gonna need our QB to make plays (as Brunell was doing in the beginning of the year) in order to have a chance to win the big games.

Heres hoping Brunell (or whoever our QB is) can get it done!
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