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WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Old 04-04-2008, 12:28 PM   #16
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

If the redskins dont use all of their salary cap space, will they use it to write off Lloyd's cap hit this year, instead of splitting it over the next two years?
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:31 PM   #17
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Originally Posted by angryssg View Post
I was one of his biggest critics. What is ticking me off is that there is nothing new to report and the press keeps dwelling on the past with their well documented, well researched, and thorough examination of the Redskins organization under Snyder.

The fact of the matter is that he is changing his approach, but his finacial abilty remains. If he fails this year, then the press can put out a well documented, well researched, and thorough examination of the Redskins organization under Snyder, and tell us all how badly he sucks. As it stands right now, we made the playoffs and didn't overpay for crap this offseason. There is no need for this offseason driven, over analytical, criticizing, trash right now.
I think JLC is overly critical of the Skins at times, but I also think that Snyder controls a good amount of media too [i.e. George and Larry Michael(s)] so it is good to at least have the Post offering a foil (that isn't uninformed such is the case with much national media). A blog entry saying 'we'll wait and see' also wouldn't take very long to read or drive much interest so I also understand why JLC wouldn't want to do something like that.

I also think that you kind of misread the entry when you say that he implies that the Skins didn't have the cap space to pursue free agents. He wrote, "But reality is, they couldn't keep doing what they we're doing forever, and, most importantly, it wasn't working. Not even close," which I take to mean that as a long-term strategy spending lots of dollars on free agent aquisitions was not going to lead to success, not that they were completely unable to do so if they wished this year.

If you want to sum up that article in a sentence it might read, "All the NFL teams that have produced as much dead cap as the Redskins have overhauled their FO structure but the Redskins gave their guy a promotion." You might respond by saying that the Redskins have made the playoffs two of the past three seasons and also that the promotion of Cerrato actually does represent a reorganization of sorts since the coach/president role no longer exists. There are probably some other arguments you can make as well. I just don't know that you can really slam JLC for saying they didn't have the cap space because that isn't how I read what he is saying.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:44 PM   #18
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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I think JLC is overly critical of the Skins at times, but I also think that Snyder controls a good amount of media too [i.e. George and Larry Michael(s)] so it is good to at least have the Post offering a foil (that isn't uninformed such is the case with much national media). A blog entry saying 'we'll wait and see' also wouldn't take very long to read or drive much interest so I also understand why JLC wouldn't want to do something like that.

I also think that you kind of misread the entry when you say that he implies that the Skins didn't have the cap space to pursue free agents. He wrote, "But reality is, they couldn't keep doing what they we're doing forever, and, most importantly, it wasn't working. Not even close," which I take to mean that as a long-term strategy spending lots of dollars on free agent aquisitions was not going to lead to success, not that they were completely unable to do so if they wished this year.

If you want to sum up that article in a sentence it might read, "All the NFL teams that have produced as much dead cap as the Redskins have overhauled their FO structure but the Redskins gave their guy a promotion." You might respond by saying that the Redskins have made the playoffs two of the past three seasons and also that the promotion of Cerrato actually does represent a reorganization of sorts since the coach/president role no longer exists. There are probably some other arguments you can make as well. I just don't know that you can really slam JLC for saying they didn't have the cap space because that isn't how I read what he is saying.

Good observation. JLC's blog was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I am tired of the entire media talking about the Redskins being strapped for cash or cap space and unable to make moves this offseason. When I read something remotely related to that in JLC's blog I erupted. I do however, stand beside my comments and do not appologize.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:54 PM   #19
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Originally Posted by T.O.Killa View Post
If the redskins dont use all of their salary cap space, will they use it to write off Lloyd's cap hit this year, instead of splitting it over the next two years?
No they can't do that, they already designated him a June 1 cut, so they're stuck with carrying him over the next two years. But I think they'll use the cap space, if not for trades, then for extending JC.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:56 PM   #20
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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No they can't do that, they already designated him a June 1 cut, so they're stuck with carrying him over the next two years. But I think they'll use the cap space, if not for trades, then for extending JC.
I recall reading something that Snyder said at the Owners' meetings that went something like "We will or have always used our cap space". Extending JC would be a smart move IMO.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:29 PM   #21
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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What I find annoying is the "knee jerk reaction" criticism and uninformed criticism. The sort of criticism in the JLC article is neither of these. This is a well documented, well researched and thorough examination of the Redskin organization under Snyder. The simple fact is, he has thus far been unsuccessful as an owner, and at the same time has drawn a significant amount of attention to himself with the contracts he has given to players. Of course he will be criticized, and deservedly so.

There are those who automatically criticize Snyder, and there are those who will automatically defend him; both are annoying. Personally, I would have trouble criticizing JLC for this article, because it is so well written, and I think those who do criticize it see Snyder through rose colored glasses and will defend him at any point.
Good post, JLC isn't saying that the changes are all due to lack of cap space. He doesn't say that at all, he merely is pointing out the past & how he's heard the same things from Snyder before. He gives them credit, but also says he'll have a "skeptical eye." How can anyone not given the history?

His statements about Gibbs wanting to repace vinny in the personnel dept. is quite revealing. I remember the rumor being floated here that there would be a new scouting dept. but never heard of vinny getting the axe. Given Vinny's promotion, Gibbs' opinion of him may have something to do w/Gibbs leaving.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:30 PM   #22
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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People have absolutely nothing to do in the offseason. I cringe and get pissed everytime I hear someone say that Snyder couldn't afford to make any offseason moves, or that they couldn't continue elaborate spending. Newsflash: Yes, they could have, but they chose not to. Here is another newsflash; if you are the top 1 or 2 money making franchises in the NFL, or even in the United States; you can afford to do whatever the hell you want.

Plain and simple, they had the cap figured out, and they are not, and never were in cap hell.
Tend to agree with this. Snyder and Vinny could have twisted the numbers, restructured contracts, and basically mortgage their future again in order to get free agents. They chose not to. It's like credit cards: eventually all of those bills are going to have to be paid.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:40 PM   #23
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Tend to agree with this. Snyder and Vinny could have twisted the numbers, restructured contracts, and basically mortgage their future again in order to get free agents. They chose not to. It's like credit cards: eventually all of those bills are going to have to be paid.
Actually i believe we did re-work a # of contracts this year to get a little cap room. Of course we have only signed our own FA's this year.

JLC really only mentioned the neg's although there are some positives. The #'s I use is wins & losses under Snyder and Cerrato. Therein lies my concern w/ DS and VC.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:46 PM   #24
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Actually i believe we did re-work a # of contracts this year to get a little cap room. Of course we have only signed our own FA's this year.

JLC really only mentioned the neg's although there are some positives. The #'s I use is wins & losses under Snyder and Cerrato. Therein lies my concern w/ DS and VC.
Which speaks to talent evaluation, but not to salary cap management. The problem has never been that we've been constrained by the cap, preventing us from getting who we wanted. The problem has been that too many of the guys we got were failures.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:14 PM   #25
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

This point about too many busts is dead on. Had the money been spent (and had we even had tons of dead cap space) but obtained players who performed well and led to a spate of winning seasons and playoff runs, no one would care about the amounts spent or resulting dead cap space. It is about Ws and Ls, and it is a fair criticism that the Snyder/Cerrato brain trust has not been great in that regard. The buck does stop with them.

Having said all that, I also agree that it is better to look forward, and the restraint we've shown this offseason and the commitment to continuity (shown in virtually every instance, save Gregg Williams) is encoraging.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:46 PM   #26
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

Well, let's not act like restructuring 30 million dollars in salary every season is sustainable. It isn't. It wasn't going to be in 2006, and it wouldn't have been in 2010 if we had continued our old ways.

However, what is sustainable is the building of a core through free agency (like in 2004), and then it is supplimented by draft picks to be the backups to the core players. That was our original plan, although it took us some time to get the depth in there because we spend a ton of picks to build that core through trades.

Now we have picks again, and now we have depth. The "rebuilding" stage appears to be complete: This is a talented team, and we have picks to spend on youth.

This free agency avoidance was merely the next step for the team. Once we have a starting lineup we are happy with, we can move into the stage of sustaining...as oppposed to building.

The next step is to use the draft so that we have the money to extend our current players without restrucutring a bunch of veteran money every season.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:50 PM   #27
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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This point about too many busts is dead on. Had the money been spent (and had we even had tons of dead cap space) but obtained players who performed well and led to a spate of winning seasons and playoff runs, no one would care about the amounts spent or resulting dead cap space. It is about Ws and Ls, and it is a fair criticism that the Snyder/Cerrato brain trust has not been great in that regard. The buck does stop with them.

Having said all that, I also agree that it is better to look forward, and the restraint we've shown this offseason and the commitment to continuity (shown in virtually every instance, save Gregg Williams) is encoraging.
Overall, I too would agree w/Schneed's statement about talent evaluation, but it goes further than that. It's not just the terrible value that we got out of loyd, he cost a 3rd & 4th round pick. Coles played well for us, but he cost draft picks & big $ too.

This has been more than a talent evaluation problem, it's been a total mismanagement of the cap as it pertains to value (please don't anyone reply that we're never in "cap hell" & that our capologist can fix it, I'm not arguing that, though I could). The poor talent evaluation of free agents or traded players is compounded when draft picks are involved.

In a nutshell, it seems to me that max. value in the cap is through draft picks:

Draft picks = less cap space & $, youth, & low risk other than 1st round.

Free agents/vets = theoretically known commodity, age, & cap space is locked into contracts forcing team to either keep player, cut & take a cap hit, or restructure & delay 'cap hell' to the end of the cba a la 2006.

In addition, the lack of priority on the draft has kept the team from building depth & developing players from within. Fortunately we've seen real examples of the scouts & coaches getting solid guys in the draft & undrafted free agents, e.g. Heyer, Alexander, Mongomery, Golston.

My only real criticism of JLC's article is that maybe he should've noted it more that re-signing our guys 1st is a change in itself. He mentioned the signings but not the significance of them. I think those signings - Collins, Rock, Frost & Fabini - are HUGE as the front office is sending a message that they want to keep their guys first. Re-sign JC next year & w/a good draft class this team could be in good shape.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:55 PM   #28
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Well, let's not act like restructuring 30 million dollars in salary every season is sustainable. It isn't. It wasn't going to be in 2006, and it wouldn't have been in 2010 if we had continued our old ways.

However, what is sustainable is the building of a core through free agency (like in 2004), and then it is supplimented by draft picks to be the backups to the core players. That was our original plan, although it took us some time to get the depth in there because we spend a ton of picks to build that core through trades.

Now we have picks again, and now we have depth. The "rebuilding" stage appears to be complete: This is a talented team, and we have picks to spend on youth.

This free agency avoidance was merely the next step for the team. Once we have a starting lineup we are happy with, we can move into the stage of sustaining...as oppposed to building.

The next step is to use the draft so that we have the money to extend our current players without restrucutring a bunch of veteran money every season.
I agree fully. I get tired of the opinion that because we clear up cap space one season that means we're in good shap w/the cap. We almost got to see how bad things were in 06 when the cba was about to expire.

Yes, we would've been in cap hell if a new deal was not struck.

good points about the draft, about the same thing I was saying earlier, we burned draft picks in trades & that really hurt over time.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #29
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

Whatever the history, it does seem that we're taking a new approach this year, and that's something. As for the numbers, if you're making the most money as a franchise, you can play money ball. The fact is, it's not a bad model, given the number of teams who spend a lot that have won superbowls. I completely agree that the issue is much more on talent evaluation. I really do wonder where the blame for Arch and Lloyd lies. My guess is it's GW and Gibbs, respectively, and not Vinny. Could be wrong there, but with AA, it certainly seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

Dead cap results when you make bad talent evaluations. Spending money is not bad per se, it just has to be spent in the right place. We'll see! It's on Vinny now, and that's a good thing: he'll either sink or swim and that will be that.
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Old 04-05-2008, 06:18 AM   #30
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Re: WP: The Numbers Don't Lie (How Snyder Has Handled the Cap)

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Whatever the history, it does seem that we're taking a new approach this year, and that's something. As for the numbers, if you're making the most money as a franchise, you can play money ball. The fact is, it's not a bad model, given the number of teams who spend a lot that have won superbowls. I completely agree that the issue is much more on talent evaluation. I really do wonder where the blame for Arch and Lloyd lies. My guess is it's GW and Gibbs, respectively, and not Vinny. Could be wrong there, but with AA, it certainly seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

Dead cap results when you make bad talent evaluations. Spending money is not bad per se, it just has to be spent in the right place. We'll see! It's on Vinny now, and that's a good thing: he'll either sink or swim and that will be that.
I dont know, I have thought about the AA and BL situation for a while now and im just not sure I can believe that GW wanted to bring in AA to fit a system. BL on the other hand maybe, maybe Al thought about bringing him in for some reason. I just have a feeling that Archuletta was Vinny's deal, wanted a name, brought him in on a big... im sorry enormous contract. This mess has been cleaned up for the most part, we are still paying on it though either through money or draft picks and thats what hurts the most. I just hope Zorn has a good eye for talent, hes got plenty of picks this year to work with.
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