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Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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Old 10-14-2008, 03:00 PM   #16
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Good luck with that. IMO there are plenty of teams in the league who would jump at the chance to pay Springs a $10 million signing bonus and have him lock down a CB spot for 3 years.

Sometimes as a front office, you have to admit when the player has the financial leverage. Springs does. He's the friggin man and he's still in tremendous shape.
If we were going to invest in Springs for three more seasons following this one, which is plausible, I think it would be accompanied by Fred Smoot's release (post June 1 designation). I agree that Springs is still very good, and probably deserving of an extension. I also think that Rogers and 35 year old Springs are a better combination than Rogers and 30 year old Smoot.

But if we're going to pay players for future performance, and not based on what they've done in the past, it would be tough for me to sign off on an extension for Springs that would guarantee his 2008 salary over a three year span.

Of course, the more I consider it, the less problematic it sounds. I definitely would say, in theory, that money is better spent on a proven veteran than a mid level guy looking for a payday.

However, lets consider the possibility that Nnamdi Asomugha hits the open market next season, and we can find the cap space to sign an elite corner (who is better than Asante Samuel or Nate Clements) by letting Smoot and Springs go. Shouldn't we do that deal if it would give us the best CB duo in the NFL?
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:24 PM   #17
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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If we were going to invest in Springs for three more seasons following this one, which is plausible, I think it would be accompanied by Fred Smoot's release (post June 1 designation). I agree that Springs is still very good, and probably deserving of an extension. I also think that Rogers and 35 year old Springs are a better combination than Rogers and 30 year old Smoot.

But if we're going to pay players for future performance, and not based on what they've done in the past, it would be tough for me to sign off on an extension for Springs that would guarantee his 2008 salary over a three year span.

Of course, the more I consider it, the less problematic it sounds. I definitely would say, in theory, that money is better spent on a proven veteran than a mid level guy looking for a payday.

However, lets consider the possibility that Nnamdi Asomugha hits the open market next season, and we can find the cap space to sign an elite corner (who is better than Asante Samuel or Nate Clements) by letting Smoot and Springs go. Shouldn't we do that deal if it would give us the best CB duo in the NFL?
Asomugha will command more than Nate Clements on the open market ($20 million bonus, $80 million total).

The excess cap space teams have found themselves with in recent Marches has led to excess inflation on free agent "prime age" players. Players like Shawn Springs, who don't fit that prime age, go for much less and return better value for the dollar.

Case in point: Derrick Dockery gets $49 million at age 27, Pete Kendall gets $3.5 million at age 35. Recognizing that Kendall was acquired in a trade and then renegotiated, but still. That's the recent trend.
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Old 10-14-2008, 07:32 PM   #18
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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Asomugha will command more than Nate Clements on the open market ($20 million bonus, $80 million total).

The excess cap space teams have found themselves with in recent Marches has led to excess inflation on free agent "prime age" players. Players like Shawn Springs, who don't fit that prime age, go for much less and return better value for the dollar.

Case in point: Derrick Dockery gets $49 million at age 27, Pete Kendall gets $3.5 million at age 35. Recognizing that Kendall was acquired in a trade and then renegotiated, but still. That's the recent trend.
I agree. Asomugha is like other premier free agents who have gotten just too damn expensive.

Springs is already being groomed to move to safety. Washington likely will be forced to renegotiate or be released.

We need to use our top draft pick on a DT or CB to inject youth into one of those positions.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:40 PM   #19
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

I remember hearing that Springs didn't want to play too much longer (and this was before all the stuff that happened to his father). Although, he may have changed his mind, I don't know how much longer he wants to play.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:13 PM   #20
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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I agree. Asomugha is like other premier free agents who have gotten just too damn expensive.

Springs is already being groomed to move to safety. Washington likely will be forced to renegotiate or be released.

We need to use our top draft pick on a DT or CB to inject youth into one of those positions.
With the development as Horton as a legitimate compliment to Landry, Springs has almost zero value to us at the safety position.

Without Springs, the only hole in our secondary that isn't locked up at least through 2011 (per the current CBA only) is No. 2 CB. Smoot is under contract through 2011, but the way he's playing right now, he'd be lucky to be under contract in April.

So Springs has value to us as a No. 2 corner, but we'd probably just take his 2009 base salary and spread it out over a three year period, and call it an extension.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:15 PM   #21
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Asomugha will command more than Nate Clements on the open market ($20 million bonus, $80 million total).

The excess cap space teams have found themselves with in recent Marches has led to excess inflation on free agent "prime age" players. Players like Shawn Springs, who don't fit that prime age, go for much less and return better value for the dollar.

Case in point: Derrick Dockery gets $49 million at age 27, Pete Kendall gets $3.5 million at age 35. Recognizing that Kendall was acquired in a trade and then renegotiated, but still. That's the recent trend.
I definately understand. But I'll entertain the dream of a Rogers-Asomugha CB duo until the day Nnamdi signs elsewhere. At the very least, we should investigate the possibility.

I'm thinking it would not be a stretch at all to suggest that those two are the two best CBs in the NFL right now.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:34 PM   #22
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

all three of these players are valuable to our team. springs is a must keep imo, smoot isnt good enough for a #2 corner at this point. griffin may not be putting up huge numbers like he did in his first season but he is still a good run stopper and we should hang onto him. i am getting tired of marcus washington missing games with nagging injuries but he is still a very good linebacker. if possible we should keep all of them
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:31 PM   #23
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

This is a really interesting subject...
im pissed with springs lately...the man plays amaxing when in...but i dont know if his heart is in the game anymore.
I can see if we get a dominant lb in the offseason marcus being released.
I love the guy but this year he just seems to have lost his fire.
And griffin, that is a tough call. There are plenty of ur guys that will be up for extensions or resigining this year...
I truly believe we need to lock up campbell, and moss.
i believe carlos needs an extension as well. But if hte cba falters...why does any of this matter?
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:35 PM   #24
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

I'm not questioning Springs' willingness to play hurt as he's played hurt alot over the last few years, but..

If he can't be on the field consistently, why would we want to resign him? He's great when he's on the field.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:52 PM   #25
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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I'm not questioning Springs' willingness to play hurt as he's played hurt alot over the last few years, but..

If he can't be on the field consistently, why would we want to resign him? He's great when he's on the field.
As much as I like SS when healthy on the field. They guy can't stay healthy or on the field. Every sense hes been here its been one thing after another in relation to injuries. The birthdays have caught up to Shawn, if you can't stay on the field and earn your paycheck your useless. We certainly can't afford to have an old #1 CB next season again thats good for half the season, that makes no sense.

I don't think especially after at least the start of this season or lack there of SS will be back next year OR even in this league for that matter. I think it's going to be time to move on, the guy makes way to much money to be on the sidelines every game watching the team play. And I think we have seen Los take the needed steps to be the #1.

I would like to see Griff back next season if workable. MW is still a serviceable LB for the right price.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:54 PM   #26
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

Springs is a keeper...no brainer IMO,
Griffin is a keeper too, because our DT's are young and ok..we have no real depth.
Washington on the other hand, is underperforming and probably should be benched or used to rush the passer on 3rd and long or something.
The reason that hasn't been done yet?....intangibles, intensity, leadership....and tangibles.
Is HB Blades actually better than a old M Washington?
Right now, its probably a break even...so why mess with it?
I just dont see the upside right now.

The off season is a different story.
Washington will have to be cut or become the 4th LB, unless he gets his crap together.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:05 PM   #27
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

I think responses like skinsfan_nn are appropriate here: you have to look at each situation in isolation after factoring other things like the cap, current personnel at each position, the draft and the free agency market.

First off, think about the cap: My thinking is that all three of these guys are probably capable of producing but are they worthwhile at their current salaries? I would say a healthy Springs warrants the salary and the other two do not. So the second question is whether they are willing to negotiate. If not, then I think you could likely see either of them gone after the June cuts because at this point the cap hit won't be monumental for either.

Second: Current personnel at each position understanding that you can't just think about starters but also have to consider depth. I think we have weak depth at linebacker. After Blades, who do we have? I'd say the same thing at DT. In fact, I think you can make an argument that Griffin is the only tackle with any pass rushing capabilities at this point. At cornerback we have two solid players but also no depth. In other words, I don't think any of these units is strong enough to justify an outright cut. It's not like we have a star waiting in the wings at any of these units or have depth at any of these units.

Third, you take into account the market. This is the area I'm probably least knowledgeable about but if free agency or the draft is strong in linebackers and defensive tackles for instance, I think that impacts your thinking on those positions. It looks as if there may be some players along the D-line available in free agency so that may impact the situation with Griffin.

Finally you need to consider chemistry. These guys aren't playing fantasy football. What would the impact be if we were to suddenly cut three guys who are considered leaders on the defensive side of the ball? Are these guys leaders in the locker room? Do they have a positive effect on the younger players?

In general, the question of cutting veterans is a pretty complex one. Just trying to outline some of the considerations.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:26 PM   #28
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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...could be released next year to trim 14 million from the cap. They play great when healthy, and I love them all, but they each miss games because of injuries fairly regularly. Do you guys (and girls) think that they could do anything this year on the field that could convince management to keep them (barring a salary cut)?

I think it would take a Pro Bowl for Springs. Washington and Griffin would have to play amazing down the stretch and in the post season.
This team needs a major infusion of youth along the O line, D line and LB. The only way to do that is to part ways with Springs, Washington and Griffin. Griff could come back for a reduced salary, but seriously, when was the last time anyone remembers Marcus Washington making a big play? And Springs isn't worth 5 mill for 10 games a season.

We have got to get younger and faster and that starts by shedding the older players who are not playing up to their salary status.

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Old 11-24-2008, 09:52 AM   #29
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Re: Springs, Washington, and Griffin...

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This team needs a major infusion of youth along the O line, D line and LB. The only way to do that is to part ways with Springs, Washington and Griffin. Griff could come back for a reduced salary, but seriously, when was the last time anyone remembers Marcus Washington making a big play? And Springs isn't worth 5 mill for 10 games a season.

We have got to get younger and faster and that starts by shedding the older players who are not playing up to their salary status.

Hail from DC Pro Sports Report, BTW!
add in JT and the total is like, 22mill for next year alone.
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