NFL taking away Redskins cap space

irish · 03-14-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

As far as I know, the NFLPA doesn't get to decide whether collusion took place -- the court does (or the NLRB, idk), and I bet they'd take the opportunity to assert their authority to rule on it.

In any case, I understand what you're saying Irish -- the Redskins supposedly didn't hold true to their word, and that is dishonorable assuming they actually gave their word on it. I think we're in agreement there. The problem I, and others, see is that the punishment isn't fair, considering:

1.) AH and DH would have been paid bonuses that year, yet the fine is equal to their bonuses in their entirety.
2.) Other teams, like the Bears, acquired new players with big bonuses and are not being fined, but rather receiving extra cap room.
3.) Other teams supposedly didn't meet the cap minimum that year, and receive no punishment.

I dont know if its fair or not fair but I'll go along with you and say its not fair. I think that when the Skins agreed to what the group was doing and then said f-u those who felt the skins went back on their word decided to drop the hammer. My experience tells me that's what happens when you go back on your word.

Even if they didnt give their word, the group made an agreement, like it or not when the group reaches consensus and you are in the group that's what you have to do.

Swarley · 03-14-2012, 05:47 PM

and that means what exactly?? If I got back on my word on robbing a bank is someone allowed to punish me because I wasn't part of the heist?

I'm pretty sure irish is Sally Jenkins lol

CRedskinsRule · 03-14-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

DAN SNYDER's LAWYER: Your honor, the case is quite simple. In violation of the relevant CBA, Mr. Snyder's business partners attempted to create an agreement to limit Mr. Snyder's ability to gain a competitive advantage during the uncapped year. Mr. Snyder refused to cooperate in the secret and illegal agreement. As a result, Mr. Snyder's business partners have now imposed a penalty upon him that restricts his ability to improve his product through the use of the contractually permitted and bargained for free agency process.

At its heart, the "Agreement" was a collusive attempt by Mr. Snyder's partners to lessen the negative consequences of Mr. Snyder and his business partners' decision to terminate the prior CBA. The evidence of the Agreement is contained in the reason given for the recently imposed sanction - Mr. Snyder is being punished for attempting to gain a "competitive advantage" during the uncapped year. The illegality of the Agreement is self evident and, further, the fact that Mr. Snyder's business partners knew of its illegality is the demonstrated by the fact that they hid the Agreement's existence from the NFLPA during the labor negotiation process.

If permitted to stand, the sanction imposed will restrict Mr. Snyder's ability to improve his product. As a result, Mr. Snyder will suffer lost revenues and, at a minimum, be placed in a position of relative contractual inequality with his business partners.

Simply put, your Honor, if permitted to stand, this sanction allows Mr. Snyder's business partners to benefit from their illegal, secret, collusive agreement by gaining a competitive advantage over Mr. Snyder. Thus, in an attempt to enforce their illegal backroom deal, Mr. Snyder's business partners seek to gain the very advantage that they would deny Mr. Snyder despite the fact that Mr. Snyder violated no rules and, in fact, was acting fully within the letter and spirit of the governing CBA.

Mr. Snyder seeks damages by way of specific performance in the removal of the sanction and the award of additional draft choices to compensate for the lost competitive equality. Further, he seeks a bazillion, gazillion dollars from his business partners just to rub some salt in it.

So you are saying that a case could be made

Giantone · 03-14-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Simple point here is no rules were broken, the NFL has admitted as much to the Skins.

If the Skins and Cowboys want to press the issue legally, I think they would have a pretty good case.

Don't know, Mark Maske lays out some very interesting stuff in todays Washington Post.

Redskins salary cap actions angered NFL - The Washington Post

JoeRedskin · 03-14-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

I dont know if its fair or not fair but I'll go along with you and say its not fair. I think that when the Skins agreed to what the group was doing and then said f-u those who felt the skins went back on their word decided to drop the hammer. My experience tells me that's what happens when you go back on your word.

Even if they didnt give their word, the group made an agreement, like it or not when the group reaches consensus and you are in the group that's what you have to do.

So, you and your friends agree to do a job for another group. After the other group leaves, your friends secretly agree to try and cheat on the agreement. Even though you know it's wrong, and may even be illegal, because the "the group reache[d] consensus and you are in the group that's what you have to do"? Sorry, illegal agreements cannot be enforced.

JoeRedskin · 03-14-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

So you are saying that a case could be made

Perhaps.

Really, I am sure one could be made and probably a pretty damn good one. I just don't know if it would be for breach of contract, tort or breach of a statutorially imposed duty.

Evilgrin · 03-14-2012, 06:37 PM

Bottom line is the first secret agreement was totally illegal, and Snyder is very shady and probably only cares about himself and getting ahead anyway he can.

That Guy · 03-14-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

But the only all important piece of documentation signed by the NFLPA says no collusion happened. I have no doubt that if D Smith was on the stand and asked if he or the NFLPA was blackmailed into agreeing to this he say no.

woah, do you have a copy of this? in the new CBA, the NFLPA agreed to drop all pending legal cases, NOT to recant their merits. there's a HUGE difference between the two.

JWsleep · 03-14-2012, 07:00 PM

My thinking on this is that there's not going to be a lawsuit. Sure, there was clearly collusion, but Jerry and Danny are up to their asses in that kind of shit with the league. And probably worse--do you really think Jerry and Danny are MORE upstanding than Mara or Rooney or whomever? It would be like the Corleone's going to the cops when Tataglia hit them.

No, it will be done "in house." So, what leverage do Danny and Jerry have here? The answer is monies paid to the league and re-distributed to the "poorer" teams. I don't know how all this works, but my impression is that the league gets a cut of the kitty Dan and Jerry build up with their aggressive marketing, including very local stuff like shirts and whatnot. (Am I wrong about this?) If there is money like this out there, then I'd freeze, oh, 36 million dollars worth of it. Or slow it down. Or **** with it in some way.

Now, I figure that agreement about redistribution IS in writing, so that's an issue. But maybe they can escrow it while the "case" is debated. That alone might squeeze some teams and make Mara sweat.

Here's another idea: London Fletcher, Laron Landry, and any unsigned Cowboy FAs should sue. They are directly harmed here: the team HAD money and wanted to spend it, but collusion kept it from them and their fair-market value. Now, this, of course, goes against the NFLPA union, but at this point, how happy can London be with the union? He was deep in negotiations with his team for his contract, and the union PULLS MONEY RIGHT OFF THE TABLE. And now he's without a contract. Quit the union and sue. BUt I'm not sure he has standing--that may be an issue given the union "signing off" on the "deal."

Finally, and this is going to happen no matter what else does, Danny and Jerry should spend the rest of their working lives taking EVERY opportunity, no matter how small, to **** with Mara and the Giants. Revenge is a dish best served slow. As I said, no way Danny and Jerry are more upstanding than the other owners. I'd be a little worried if I were in the Giants organization. It will come. Believe me.

Hog1 · 03-14-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

Bottom line is the first secret agreement was totally illegal, and Snyder is very shady and probably only cares about himself and getting ahead anyway he can.

Based on?

Giantone · 03-14-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWsleep

My thinking on this is that there's not going to be a lawsuit. Sure, there was clearly collusion,.

We will deal with your Giant envy later but do you even know what collusion is?From these posts not a whole lot of you do.

Swarley · 03-14-2012, 08:10 PM

Collision is not the same thing as collusion. Are you sure you know what it is?

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-14-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantone

We will deal with your Giant envy later but do you even know what collusion is?From these posts not a whole lot of you do.

I think JoeRedskin laid it out there pretty eloquently.

JWsleep · 03-14-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantone

We will deal with your Giant envy later but do you even know what collusion is?From these posts not a whole lot of you do.

Lol. My feelings about the Giants in this case are based on Graziano and others reporting about where this stuff is coming from. And I'm sure I'd hate Danny and Jerry too, if I were the owner of a different team. But whatever--the Meadowlands is an awful place and I don't envy anyone who must go there more than once a year.

Anywho, my impression is that the owners of the teams in the NFL (ie management) acted behind the scenes in concert to agree to keep labor costs down. Call that what you will. For what it's worth, I have no doubt that Danny gave his word and agreed at the time. He then reneged on his promise and now, 2 years later and a day before free agency, he's getting his payback from the fellas he crossed. Is that not what happened here?

I'm pissed because I am a skins fan also because of the hypocrisy of the league claiming some nonsense about "competitiveness". We were 5-11 last year and have been to the playoffs only 3 times since Danny bought the team. Yeah, the league is really scared that we're going to become the 27 Yankees. BS. It's about money and the egos of billionaires.

Whatever. To be honest, it's a kind of fun distraction in the offseason, except that it cost us 36 mil in cap space. But the cap has never stopped us before, so I'm not that worried.

(PS I lived in NYC for 20 years. The only time I root for the Vagiants is when they play the cowboys. Then I root for a tie and lots of injuries.)

steveo395 · 03-14-2012, 11:22 PM

...

03-14-2012, 05:47 PM	#692
Swarley The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Age: 24 Posts: 1,035	Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space and that means what exactly?? If I got back on my word on robbing a bank is someone allowed to punish me because I wasn't part of the heist? I'm pretty sure irish is Sally Jenkins lol __________________ doing it all in the spirit of the salary cap!

03-14-2012, 06:37 PM	#697
Evilgrin Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 464	Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space Bottom line is the first secret agreement was totally illegal, and Snyder is very shady and probably only cares about himself and getting ahead anyway he can.

03-14-2012, 07:00 PM	#699
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 44 Posts: 4,576	Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space My thinking on this is that there's not going to be a lawsuit. Sure, there was clearly collusion, but Jerry and Danny are up to their asses in that kind of shit with the league. And probably worse--do you really think Jerry and Danny are MORE upstanding than Mara or Rooney or whomever? It would be like the Corleone's going to the cops when Tataglia hit them. No, it will be done "in house." So, what leverage do Danny and Jerry have here? The answer is monies paid to the league and re-distributed to the "poorer" teams. I don't know how all this works, but my impression is that the league gets a cut of the kitty Dan and Jerry build up with their aggressive marketing, including very local stuff like shirts and whatnot. (Am I wrong about this?) If there is money like this out there, then I'd freeze, oh, 36 million dollars worth of it. Or slow it down. Or ** with it in some way. Now, I figure that agreement about redistribution IS in writing, so that's an issue. But maybe they can escrow it while the "case" is debated. That alone might squeeze some teams and make Mara sweat. Here's another idea: London Fletcher, Laron Landry, and any unsigned Cowboy FAs should sue. They are directly harmed here: the team HAD money and wanted to spend it, but collusion kept it from them and their fair-market value. Now, this, of course, goes against the NFLPA union, but at this point, how happy can London be with the union? He was deep in negotiations with his team for his contract, and the union PULLS MONEY RIGHT OFF THE TABLE. And now he's without a contract. Quit the union and sue. BUt I'm not sure he has standing--that may be an issue given the union "signing off" on the "deal." Finally, and this is going to happen no matter what else does, Danny and Jerry should spend the rest of their working lives taking EVERY opportunity, no matter how small, to ** with Mara and the Giants. Revenge is a dish best served slow. As I said, no way Danny and Jerry are more upstanding than the other owners. I'd be a little worried if I were in the Giants organization. It will come. Believe me. __________________ Hail from Houston!

03-14-2012, 08:10 PM	#702
Swarley The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Age: 24 Posts: 1,035	Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space Collision is not the same thing as collusion. Are you sure you know what it is? __________________ doing it all in the spirit of the salary cap!

03-14-2012, 11:22 PM	#705
steveo395 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,673	Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space ... __________________

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NFL taking away Redskins cap space

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