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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin
Your original quote was:
What is a long time ago? In 2004, the first year of Gibbs' second tenure? That Year we had Hamdan and Ramsey on the squad and had just aquired Brunnell. We should have drafted another QB? Then, in 2005 and as you suggest,HE DRAFTS A QB. We should've drafted two? The developmental QB on the squad turned out to be Ramsey who netted us a sixth rounder. (Not bad bargain for a third stringer - essentially the Jets paid the going rate for what is now a short term starter (T. Green)).
So in 2005 with two young QB's and Brunnell we should've drafted another? Makes sense to me.
Palmer is the one player??? NO Palmer is the SECOND player, the FIRST was Campbell. (Dear God can you be more obtuse?). And while your right, Campbell hasn't proven anything - He has better press than Ramsey did at this stage and seems to be progressing well (something Ramsey never did and still hasn't done- progress). So in 4 years, it appears that Gibbs hit on one of his two QB choices. Well above league average.
I have never argued that Gibbs is a great "personnel guy". I think he can recognize and coach talent. Would I have made the same choices he has made in his second tenure here - probably not. And, although he may have intially wanted to get rid of Theisman - he didn't and he easily could have if he had been truly unhappy with his play. Theisman gained Gibbs confidence and Gibbs returned Theisman's work with loyalty - even when the fans were calling for Schroeder. And though he didn't draft D. Williams, Gibbs was the driving force in getting him into DC and chose him over Schroeder when push came to shove.
Undoubtedly, Gibbs overpaid for Brunnell - but at the time we were not the only suitor for his services. Certainly Miami was interested in him. IMO, Gibbs knows he overpaid and would like to have another shot at the deal. (He made a comment later in the year that there was a learning curve on player aquisition in the FA period and he would like to do some things differently).
I am not gonna get into the Brunnell Bashing fight with you. Hate all you want, it just demonstrates the true basis of your position. As for "getting a youngster in", we did three - Palmer, Bramlett and the Maryland QB (I forget his name). None of them were NFL quality (as demonstrated by the lack of interest from other teams). We may get lucky and find someone - but it wasn't anybody we looked at this year. We will probably try again next year. Goes on all over the league. Keeping both Brunnell and Collins doesn't seem like the brightest thing in the world to me either. BUT - I am not aware of the cap ramifications of cutting Brunnell and that may be playing into it.
While I am not certain, I believe Brunnell's lifetime win percentage is pretty much on the plus side.
Why are you picking a fight where we don't disagree? Beathard had a phenomenal record - I would imagine that it is close to unmatched (perhaps Ron Wolfe).
As for taking "more than 1 shot", Beathard did not pick a QB until his third year with the Skins and then chose six in eight years (Oh wait, that's what the Skins have done in the last eight years). Again I again point out that Gibbs has picked two QB's in four years.
The Skins record on QB picks in the last eight years is, again, about average maybe better, 1 in six was a bonified starter (or appears to be) and two back ups that have moved on to other teams (Rosenfels, Ramsey).
And while the verdict IS still out on Campbell. I will bet you $100.00 that, barring injury, he puts together a better season than Ramsey ever had for any of his three teams.
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Palmer is the one player??? NO Palmer is the SECOND player, the FIRST was Campbell. (Dear God can you be more obtuse?). And while your right, Campbell hasn't proven anything - He has better press than Ramsey did at this stage and seems to be progressing well (something Ramsey never did and still hasn't done- progress). So in 4 years, it appears that Gibbs hit on one of his two QB choices. Well above league average.
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Pay attention, which I know you don't which is why we are even having the debate, Palmer is the first QB drafted by Gibbs to be a backup, Campbell was drafted to be a starter, as I said he has not brought in talent at the QB position to add depth. Please pay attention before you use fancy words like obtuse, we all have seen shawshank redemption.
It appears he's hit on Campbell eh. Ramsey's press was better than Campbells my friend that is why everyone was so shocked when Gibbs went after Brunell, it is also why Miami was offering a #2 pick in the draft for Ramsey at the time. I would like to know what Campbell has done to warrant these accolades? Other than being the only guy on the team who can actually throw a football 50 yards? Campbell has proven nothing, his only accolade is gibbs named him starter no different than when he named Brunell the starter, Campbell has a long way to go before he's a success story. Beating Brunell out for the starting job I hardly consider conquering the mountain.
You also keep bringing up pre gibbs, my contention is Gibbs has not addressed the QB depth with youth, BB didn't address it initially because we had a bonafide starter and backups, but he did address it and not with QB's who went undrafted.
I really hope Campbell is the goods because we are a long way's away from another legitimate starter.