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Originally Posted by GTripp0012
I agree that the selfishness vs. self-lessness debate has no relevance to healthcare reform, but that just makes me question why you brought it up in the first place. Seems to me that Joe was merely defending himself against a loaded term.
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The topic of the selfish nature of man was brought up to highlight that without government mandate some among us would not be interested in paying for UHC. Joe doesn't need to defend himself, and he isn't. He is merely expressing his view on the nature of man.
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Originally Posted by GTripp0012
which you've here defined in a clear, but ultimately in a manner that is academically and grammatically unsubstantiated. In other words: fascinating opinion, man! The human mind can do craaazy things!
Fun simile though.
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Academically and grammatically unsubstantiated? Do you speak from experience?
Opinion? You give me far too much credit.
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Originally Posted by GTripp0012
Doesn't this imply that:
1) All forms of UHC promote general welfare,
2) A healthcare program that does not promote the general welfare is not UHC,
therefore
3) UHC, as you use it, is a loaded term aimed at suggesting what healthcare reform should accomplish, and not an actual descriptive term of any particular individual healthcare bill or act.
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What an abominable argument. No it does not imply "all forms of UHC promote general welfare." Did you not read my hyperbole reference (i.e a UHC program that promotes eugenics)? UHC is a well defined, information on what it's suppose to be and do is readily available.
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I think we can agree that by your logic, the Obama bill is not to be considered UHC, and also that we've yet to hear a realistic idea aimed at implementing UHC in the United States. For all you or I know, your definition of UHC in the US may very well be impossible.
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No, we don't agree at all. By my logic, "Obama's bill" is UHC and would pass a constitutional challenge. Note that certain provisions of the bill can be challenged but since we don't have a final bill we can not asses which provisions can be successfully challenged. I suspect the final bill will be solid.