Civil Discussion About Religion

[saden1]

Is religion the force behind morality? Is Mahatma Gandhi going to hell because he wasn't a Christian? If you were to die today are you going to hell or heaven?

Are there any non-believers in the house (i.e. atheist and agnostics)? When did you stop, why did you stop, and what did your family members say when you stopped?

[12thMan]

dude, are you trying to start a war on warpath or what?

[onlydarksets]

You will burn in hell, saden1.

Of course, I'm agnostic, so there's only a 50% chance that I mean anything by that. My parents were lapsed Catholic hippies (who have since reformed to varying degrees), so I got no religion growing up. It's never been a part of my life. That said, I'm not so vain to believe that there is nothing bigger than me out there. However, I'm also not vain enough to think that the only sentient life in the universe is on this planet.

[Daseal]

Personally, I'm agnostic. To me, I have trouble believing as truth books supposedly written from 3rd, 4th, and 5th hand information. Many of those books translated many time from ancient languages and by hand. There's also the issue of books of the bible found that were omitted which seems odd to me.

I think religion can be a great force for people. If someone truly believes in prayer, then I think it helps. The mind is an extremely powerful healer.

As far as the heaven and hell thing. In my opinion, as long as you live what would be considered an honest life, I don't think there will be any issues. For instance, I don't feel eating pork will keep me from entering heaven.

As far as when did I stop and why did I stop. I never began. Part of the reason a lot of churches in the community I grew up in is their congregation's average age must be hovering around 55-60. They can't get any young people; my theory is that now days parents aren't forcing children to adopt their beliefs without exploring a bit on their own first, this leads to more people being either extremely casual (not going to church) about religion or become agnostic like myself.

One thing I'd like to clear up that sometimes people misunderstand. Agnostic is not the same as atheist. Agnostic means you believe that there's some sort of higher power, but you don't exactly claim to know what.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

dude, are you trying to start a war on warpath or what?

No, I would hope everyone is an adult and can discuss these issues without blowing up.

I have noticed people flipping out for no reason, some people just need to grow up on this site.

[MTK]

I'm a non-believer.

My family isn't very religous though I did go to bible school when I was really young.

To me evolution just makes sense. Organized religion doesn't.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Daseal

One thing I'd like to clear up that sometimes people misunderstand. Agnostic is not the same as atheist. Agnostic means you believe that there's some sort of higher power, but you don't exactly claim to know what.

Actually, what you describe is an agnostic theist. A true agnostic believes that the existence of a higher power is unknowable. My personal beliefs bounce back and forth between the two depending on the day of the week.

[RobH4413]

Organized religion is a joke. More often then not I've found it breeds hatred. It seems that when people take sides/show differences it's easy to call the other the "enemy". Religion has given people a "side" too many times. Mabye it's enevitable as humans, but religion plays a huge role in almost every significant conflict in our history.

As I've grown older I've begun to seperate from religion and shifted towards spirtuality. I think theres a distinct difference, and I'm a better person because of it.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm a non-believer.

My family isn't very religous though I did go to bible school when I was really young.

To me evolution just makes sense. Organized religion doesn't.

That reminds me of the south park episode...but all funniness aside.

I was born a Catholic and then converted to "Church of Christ" when I was 5ish. So I have been baptised twice...once at birth, once as an adult. I am not a typical Church of Christ believer though. They beleive that they are pretty much the only ones going to heaven...I totally disagree. I could go on and on debating the differences in my beliefs, but Matty made a comment about evolution.
I 100% feel that the theory of evolution can co-exist with the bible. I do not for a second think that if you beleive in evolution, you must therefore not agree with the bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...it's WHO, not HOW. A lot of people get stuck on the 6 days thing (and on the 7th He rested), but who is to say that God didn't create the earth WITH evolution? The bible is silent on how it was made most likely because it is irrelevant.
If it's the Adam and Eve story...well, did things not occur before Adam and Eve were created? Just because they were the first, does not mean they were the only. Otherwise we'd all be descendants of insest. I do think we evolved, and I do whole heartedly beleive in the big bang theory. I also beleive in God. There are many possible scenarios as to how all this happened, none of which I believe God was absent from, and none of which I beleive evolution was absent from. God created everything FROM evolution, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

[djnemo65]

I think Jesse Ventura said it best when he was governor....Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people. JK, but isn't that seriously the greatest governor quote of all time?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That reminds me of the south park episode...but all funniness aside.

I was born a Catholic and then converted to "Church of Christ" when I was 5ish. So I have been baptised twice...once at birth, once as an adult. I am not a typical Church of Christ believer though. They beleive that they are pretty much the only ones going to heaven...I totally disagree. I could go on and on debating the differences in my beliefs, but Matty made a comment about evolution.
I 100% feel that the theory of evolution can co-exist with the bible. I do not for a second think that if you beleive in evolution, you must therefore not agree with the bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...it's WHO, not HOW. A lot of people get stuck on the 6 days thing (and on the 7th He rested), but who is to say that God didn't create the earth WITH evolution? The bible is silent on how it was made most likely because it is irrelevant.
If it's the Adam and Eve story...well, did things not occur before Adam and Eve were created? Just because they were the first, does not mean they were the only. Otherwise we'd all be descendants of insest. I do think we evolved, and I do whole heartedly beleive in the big bang theory. I also beleive in God. There are many possible scenarios as to how all this happened, none of which I believe God was absent from, and none of which I beleive evolution was absent from. God created everything FROM evolution, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

You and I share a VERY similar belief system.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Organized religion is a joke. More often then not I've found it breeds hatred. It seems that when people take sides/show differences it's easy to call the other the "enemy". Religion has given people a "side" too many times. Mabye it's enevitable as humans, but religion plays a huge role in almost every significant conflict in our history.

As I've grown older I've begun to seperate from religion and shifted towards spirtuality. I think theres a distinct difference, and I'm a better person because of it.

Religion is what you make of it. Religion will be flawed because humans made it and run it. Just look at politics, humans created it, therefore it is flawed. God never tells anyone to have a religion. He tells them to have a personal relationship with Him and (using your words) have strong spirituality.
Just remember this, when you want to "blame religion", remember that #1- God NEVER agrees with killing in His name, so if you plan to, you are doing Satan's work, not His. #2- Having a religion is like being a fan of a football team. I go to church every Sunday to discuss things I beleive in with other followers that have similar beleifs. Just like I am on this site sith a bunch of people to discuss my beloved Skins and with people that have similar beliefs. We as humans love to congregate and separate. We will constantly divide amoungst ourselves. We create different groups...Republicans / Democrats, Lower / Middle / Upper class, poor / wealthy, smart / stupid. God didn't create the separation, WE did. We blame God (or try to), but He had nothing to do with it. Our sinning / human nature is what created all this. Why do you think a Catholic and a Baptist can't get along when it comes to "religion"? It's human behavior, not God.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Religion is what you make of it. Religion will be flawed because humans made it and run it. Just look at politics, humans created it, therefore it is flawed. God never tells anyone to have a religion. He tells them to have a personal relationship with Him and (using your words) have strong spirituality.
Just remember this, when you want to "blame religion", remember that #1- God NEVER agrees with killing in His name, so if you plan to, you are doing Satan's work, not His. #2- Having a religion is like being a fan of a football team. I go to church every Sunday to discuss things I beleive in with other followers that have similar beleifs. Just like I am on this site sith a bunch of people to discuss my beloved Skins and with people that have similar beliefs. We as humans love to congregate and separate. We will constantly divide amoungst ourselves. We create different groups...Republicans / Democrats, Lower / Middle / Upper class, poor / wealthy, smart / stupid. God didn't create the separation, WE did. We blame God (or try to), but He had nothing to do with it. Our sinning / human nature is what created all this. Why do you think a Catholic and a Baptist can't get along when it comes to "religion"? It's human behavior, not God.

I like the cut of your jib, jsarno. Despite your lack of faith in Vince Young.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I think Jesse Ventura said it best when he was governor....Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people. JK, but isn't that seriously the greatest governor quote of all time?

Actually, from a complex standpoint, he's correct, from a simplistic standpoint (which is the way the majority of people view things) he's a moron.
All people want to fit in somewhere, some use drugs, some use sex, some use religion, some use sports. If you take very positive things away from religion then it's not at all a sham or a crutch for the weak minded. And Beleive me, a lot of positives can be taken away from religion. If you use it for your own beleifs, and to break down others, then yes, it is a sham and a crutch for the weak minded.
Sorry I will not divulge further, it would take at least 3 pages to actually explain the difference, but I hope you get the idea.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

You and I share a VERY similar belief system.

You must be an intellegent individual. hahaha