It Takes Time.............

[44ever]

Redskins defense: Nine first-round draft picks, but ranked last in NFL

Perspective from some of the Redskins D

"It's almost like you've been kind of doing everything with your right hand," veteran defensive lineman Vonnie Holliday said, "and all of a sudden you break your right hand and you got to start doing everything with your left hand."

[GusFrerotte]

A lot of it can be put on the basic scheme. It is going to be hard expecting to win in the dog eat dog NFC East with a 3-4 defense, as the running game is a pivotal part of NFC East ball. Look at poor Michigan in the Big Ten. Rod put them in a 3-3-5 scheme in a run heavy conference and blammo, his D sucks.

[44ever]

I hate the fact that the D feels they are not in a win now position. The feeling is they need to grow into their new roles and some relearn completely. To me that leaves the door open to the unaccountability attitude.

Seems like when we don't have the talent we do one thing. Then, as soon as we get the talent we do another. By the time we get this D down we will be needing a bunch of new players. Then it will be, we need more time for these guys to grow up. It's gonna be a while, thats for sure.

[mooby]

We might be seeing some decent guys gone from our defense this offseason. For some it's too late to transition to a 3-4 after being in a 4-3 their entire careers. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for next season and maybe the one after that, but if defense is consistently horrible for the next several years they will run out of excuses for that. And I wouldn't be suprised if Haslett is gone after this season anyways.

[GusFrerotte]

If Haslett is gone after this season, odds are the 3-4 will be also. We will lose too much talent if we keep the 3-4 or more to the point, the team's rebuilding efforts will be pushed back years.

[tc2deuce]

well to be devil's advocate...Orakpo likes the scheme and Laron thrives in this system we just need to send my andre carter to a team he can do his thing on....we all know he can't move like an OLB....( i do love andre carter but he was born to be a DE)

[skinsfaninok]

I'm a fan of keeping the 3-4, takes time folks but guys like 98 and 30 are made for that scheme.. Landry could be a poor mans Troy Pa and Orakpo is like a James Harrison out there. Just give it some time, if we fired Haslett and hired Wade it wouldn't change anyway.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

If Haslett is gone after this season, odds are the 3-4 will be also. We will lose too much talent if we keep the 3-4 or more to the point, the team's rebuilding efforts will be pushed back years.

Orrr the coaches will follow the logical route and stick with the 3-4. Mike Shanahan is a smart man, there's no way he would come in here, make the decision to switch to a 3-4, and then bail on it after the first season. Everybody knows these kinds of switches take time. I'd put more odds on Haslett and several defensive players leaving after this season. But if we do get a new coordinator I'd bet it will be a 3-4 guy. Moves I can see being made this offseason:

Maybe letting Haslett go.
As Smootsmack mentioned, Rocky might be trade bait.
Andre Carter gone
Haynesworth probably gone if somebody will pony up a 2nd rounder.
Getting younger on the d-line, aka maybe Golston/Holliday gone or Golston goes back to being a backup.
Getting a true 3-4 nose tackle and making Kemoeatu the backup.
Upgrade at ROLB if they feel they can do better than 'Zo.
Upgrade at free safety and make Kareem Moore a backup.
Finding a guy to groom behind Fletch to take over for him when he leaves.

The only positions I really see safe on the defense is Rogers/Hall at corner, if Rogers is willing to stay (I hope he does, we already have enough problems to solve, we don't need another)
Landry at SS
Rak' at LOLB
Possibly Fletch at MLB
Possibly 'Zo at ROLB
Possibly Adam Carriker at DE (I've liked his transition to 3-4 DE so far, but the coaches might feel like they can do better.

And I'll assume they'll fill positions of need through free agency and the draft. They can't solely go the draft route because there are positions of need on the offense as well. I'm thinking interior line needs upgrading (LG, C, RG), WR needs an upgrade, at least depth wise, and RB might get shuffled but I think we could find a decent young running back for cheap in free agency, we def. don't need a big name there. I can see Chris Cooley or Fred Davis being trade bait, because we have a lot of positions of need and I think either one of those guys would do more as a starter (I'd say Cooley is the more likely trade bait because he'd have a higher price).

Overall main point of my post is we obviously don't have all the personnel we need on defense, and with offense in need of some talent we can't just focus on d this entire offseason. We'll see what moves they'll make but I def. don't see this team going back to a 4-3 after the season.

[GMScud]

This article is stupid. So is the thread title. Why the eff do you go out and get a win-now type QB like McNabb for valuable draft picks, and then proceed to change a very talented defensive unit so drastically that they are rendered historically awful????

You've got guys like D'Angelo Hall saying "you're not really going to see this defense function for two or three years..." Two or three years? WTF? This is the NFL. That's not even close to good enough. Andre Carter is saying, "There's times when teams will be in certain formations when you're like, 'Oh, no. What should I do?' " Whaaaa? A former pro-bowler and 10 year vet not knowing what to do in a regular season game?

Transitioning to a 3-4 because other teams look cool running it is dumb. This defense has pieces in place to run a different kind of D very effectively. I think Blache's defenses needed some changes, but this scheme is total shit, especially for the type of talent we have roaming around back there. There has to be a better way to gradually move from a 4-3 to 3-4 base. Haslett looks flustered all the time on the sidelines.

I'm concerned about Mike Shanahan's judgment moving forward. I don't give a shit about past accolades. In the past 12 years, said past accolades and glory haven't served the Redskins well at all with players or coaches. I'm sure not gonna count on it now.

[SirClintonPortis]

Nice post Scud.

In 2-3 years, McNabb will be retired or playing somewhere else, so that makes the change even more baffling.

Also, Shanahan never was known for fielding good defenses. Although the Broncos got slammed by injuries in 2008, they were pretty Swiss cheese before then as well.

[skins89moss]

The Problem with the Redskins organization and some of its bandwangon fans is that we don't wont to rebuild. We just want to add pieces to a team every year believing that these few selected free agents will make us a playoff contender. We have been doing business like this for the last 10 years. Listen people we have to rebuild this team via the draft and stop pretending that we are 2 or 3 players away from going to the Super Bowl. Every good team has to rebuild its just the way it is. We think cause we hire new coaches every 3years it will make us a contender. This thinking needs to stop so stop saying fire Shanny and Hasslete it's not their fault this team is old and missing pieces. We have to purge this roster cause old and slow gets you to 4-12 or 7-9 records not playoff contenders. Lets stop looking for the quick fix BS and build a team through the College draft like other good teams do. We are what our record says we are. Wake the F up and stop dreaming of playoffs we need to be thinking about what players in the up coming draft can help us. We need to do better in projecting talent. No more wasted drafted picks, and bad free agent signings. Where is Larry Johnson and Willie Parker at now oh I know they in street clothes. No wonder the Chiefs and Steelers let them walk cause they are washed up. Hello we released Devin now it time for Galloway to be in street clothes. Lets see what Perry Riley has to offer this season since we are so terrible on defense and learning the 3-4 . Draft picks better start to be treated like Gold around here people cause if we keep drafting bad our team will stay bad.

[Dread-Skin]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Why the eff do you go out and get a win-now type QB like McNabb for valuable draft picks, and then proceed to change a very talented defensive unit so drastically that they are rendered historically awful???? You've got guys like D'Angelo Hall saying "you're not really going to see this defense function for two or three years..." Two or three years? WTF? This is the NFL. That's not even close to good enough. Andre Carter is saying, "There's times when teams will be in certain formations when you're like, 'Oh, no. What should I do?' " Whaaaa? A former pro-bowler and 10 year vet not knowing what to do in a regular season game?

Transitioning to a 3-4 because other teams look cool running it is dumb. This defense has pieces in place to run a different kind of D very effectively. I think Blache's defenses needed some changes, but this scheme is total shit, especially for the type of talent we have roaming around back there. There has to be a better way to gradually move from a 4-3 to 3-4 base. Haslett looks flustered all the time on the sidelines.

I'm concerned about Mike Shanahan's judgment moving forward. I don't give a shit about past accolades. In the past 12 years, said past accolades and glory haven't served the Redskins well at all with players or coaches. I'm sure not gonna count on it now.

Thank-you!!!!!!!!!!!!

[44ever]

Originally Posted by GMScud

This article is stupid. So is the thread title. Why the eff do you go out and get a win-now type QB like McNabb for valuable draft picks, and then proceed to change a very talented defensive unit so drastically that they are rendered historically awful????

You've got guys like D'Angelo Hall saying "you're not really going to see this defense function for two or three years..." Two or three years? WTF? This is the NFL. That's not even close to good enough. Andre Carter is saying, "There's times when teams will be in certain formations when you're like, 'Oh, no. What should I do?' " Whaaaa? A former pro-bowler and 10 year vet not knowing what to do in a regular season game?

Transitioning to a 3-4 because other teams look cool running it is dumb. This defense has pieces in place to run a different kind of D very effectively. I think Blache's defenses needed some changes, but this scheme is total shit, especially for the type of talent we have roaming around back there. There has to be a better way to gradually move from a 4-3 to 3-4 base. Haslett looks flustered all the time on the sidelines.

I'm concerned about Mike Shanahan's judgment moving forward. I don't give a shit about past accolades. In the past 12 years, said past accolades and glory haven't served the Redskins well at all with players or coaches. I'm sure not gonna count on it now.

Your attacking the thread title? Really?

Most of your post is good and makes sense, but why attack the thread title? did you not see the (.............)? It was sarcasm towards the article itself.

The fact is, this is not a win now scheme or team. As far as the article, I think it shows the mental state of the defensive players and answers a lot of questions as to why we are playing the way we are. You might as well sit back and relax and get ready for many years of the Same Ol' S***

Like I said, by the time we get this thing down, we will need a bunch of new personnel. Yes, including McNabb. "It takes time," time that most of this team does not have, that was the point.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Redskins defense: Nine first-round draft picks, but ranked last in NFL

Perspective from some of the Redskins D

"It's almost like you've been kind of doing everything with your right hand," veteran defensive lineman Vonnie Holliday said, "and all of a sudden you break your right hand and you got to start doing everything with your left hand."

The thread title is a blanket statement we've been preaching around here for as long as I can remember. We'll continue to make that statement as long as we keep changing coaches every three years. Sadly, today's NFL does not offer-up much time when you don't produce, production is where we've been lacking. Each year around this time, you're sitting on your hands wondering what changes are coming next. Stay tuned.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GMScud

This article is stupid. So is the thread title. Why the eff do you go out and get a win-now type QB like McNabb for valuable draft picks, and then proceed to change a very talented defensive unit so drastically that they are rendered historically awful????

You've got guys like D'Angelo Hall saying "you're not really going to see this defense function for two or three years..." Two or three years? WTF? This is the NFL. That's not even close to good enough. Andre Carter is saying, "There's times when teams will be in certain formations when you're like, 'Oh, no. What should I do?' " Whaaaa? A former pro-bowler and 10 year vet not knowing what to do in a regular season game?

Transitioning to a 3-4 because other teams look cool running it is dumb. This defense has pieces in place to run a different kind of D very effectively. I think Blache's defenses needed some changes, but this scheme is total shit, especially for the type of talent we have roaming around back there. There has to be a better way to gradually move from a 4-3 to 3-4 base. Haslett looks flustered all the time on the sidelines.

I'm concerned about Mike Shanahan's judgment moving forward. I don't give a shit about past accolades. In the past 12 years, said past accolades and glory haven't served the Redskins well at all with players or coaches. I'm sure not gonna count on it now.

I am not being sarcastic when I say this: nice rant. I feel the same way. Nevertheless, my rational side tells me that we must go through a long, painful transition in order to become a team that can compete for the championship on a consistent basis.

We haven't been a good team for a very long time and during that time Dan Snyder has made a series of very bad decisions in hiring his top football executives. We all know this. Although the jury is still out on his hirings of Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen, both of them have good track records and I think that Snyder needs to give them enough time to build the type of team they envision.

Dan Snyder has tried every quick fix there is. Not only did none of the quick fixes he tried work out, but they set him back in his efforts to build a contender. Now, Snyder has to pay the piper. By that I mean that he now has to stay the course through several more years of losing while Mike and Bruce dismantle the current roster and build a new one that fits their model. I think that's the only rational way to try to get the job done.

I don't like it and I don't want to go through it but I accept that it needs to be done.