All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

Hail to the Redskins · 02-24-2004, 07:54 PM

OK, seriously, let's break this down... because once you do, you realize how dumb this move is.

First, let me say Clinton Portis is young, and a great back... he'd be a great RB for us... BUT

Let's look at it from these 2 angles...

Situation A---> We get Portis at RB, get rid of posssibly the best CB in the game AND a 2nd rounder.

Problems with this are:

1) OK, this leaves us with just a 1st and 5th round pick and thats IT.
2) Portis won't come THAT much cheaper than Champ (He has been quoted as saying "I'm one of the top 5 RB's in the game and I deserved to be paid like one."
3) We have a gaping hole at CB.
4) We STILL have gaping holes on D-Line.
5) 3 & 4 combined = Our defense is actually getting WORSE!
6) Money to sign S. Springs (who were are close to signing), J. Kearse, and T. Washington? MAYBE those 3, but nothing more than that! (see #2)
6) Gibbs/Bugel O-Lines have never needed a superstar RB.

Situation B ---> We trade Champ to DET for a 1st (6th overall) and 3rd (or 4th) Rd Pick... then trade down a couple slots from #6 and take Kevin Jones.

1) Can anyone here argue that K. Jones skills do not look an awful lot like C. Portis' coming out of college? (Portis ran for 1,500 rookie yr) if not better?? (Kevin Jones runs a 4.3 - 40) ... i think they do.
2) At #5 we can take S. Taylor or trade one down, get D-Line guy, get a TE or young CB in the second (the one we AREN'T trading to DEN), and someone else in the 3rd, meaning ... lots of young affordable talent coming in.
3) We'd have PLENTY of cap space to get a S. Springs (or better), J. Kearse, T.Washington, J. Kleinsasser, and more.

My point is ... is Kevin Jones THAT much worse than Portis?

In one scenario, we'd have Portis at RB, a nice sized cap hit, limited ability to be active in free agency, and only 1st and 5th round picks to help the defense...

In the other, we'd have K. Jones at RB, a MUCH lower cap hit (rookie contract), ability to be more active in free agency, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd (or 4th), and 5th round picks to fill the hole Champ leaves and the one on the D-Line.

I mean... to me, it just makes sense... don't be wowed by a name guys... running backs are found and made EVERY year.

Gmanc711 · 02-24-2004, 08:00 PM

Is this you bowels? The fact is , I do not like parting with our second rounder, and I dont see how that wasent better negoiated, but Portis vs Jones, Portis in a heartbeat. There are lots of back that look amazing coming outta college that stink, Portis has proven what he can do on a professional level.

offiss · 02-24-2004, 08:12 PM

I agree with httr, I am also afraid SS's shadow is still empailing our team, he made player's look so useless that nobody believes any of these guy's are capable of finding the field, let alone play. to bad we will lose champ for a back we don't need, and have holes in area's that we do need, I guess we just send the rest of our back's packing at this point, if we go this route bett's was another obvious waste of a pick for us, but not for the team that will give him a chance.

Teemotay · 02-24-2004, 08:12 PM

I don't think the question is Portis vs Jones.....it's a matter of $$$. For what Portis will want, we could sign Jones and probably 2 or 3 more guys to help fill some needs.

Hail to the Redskins · 02-24-2004, 08:14 PM

Yep, it's me ... figured I needed a REAL 'skinsfans screen name

I am not saying Kevin Jones is better than Portis right now... but considering all those other factors?? Cap space to signs defensive help and the 3 extra picks we'd get instead on TOP of having Jones??

I just don't think he is, or COULD be, THAT much worse.. and I am not that big a Kevin Jones fan!! hahaha

I just think this deal is stupid... just like the Brunell deal... we are spending our money at QB and RB... I know they may be the 2 most important positions... but damn, Patrick Ramsey isn't as talented as Jake Delhomme??????? I mean, we'll be running a system VERY symiliar to dan Hennings (Gibbs' old OC) offense in Carolina. And all these people think Ramsey "isn't ready" to lead a team throguh the playoffs? Delhomme was???

The idea of "Super Bowl QB's" are blown WAY out of proportion. So is the idea of bringing in Brunell with a SIGNING BONUS worth more than million dollars richer than Ramsey's whole 5 year deal!

Also... Running Backs are made every year... look at Ahman Grren leaving Seattle, Priest Holmes leaving Baltimore, and Quinton Griffin filling in for CLINTON PORTIS!!! With a good offensive line... which we WILL have this year, you can MAKE a good back out of Betts, McCullough OR Greg Jones (2nd round pick) and leave those 2 first round picks for defense...

I dunno... it's just my opinion, I could be wrong ... but I think the move hurts the overall TEAM. We DO need a defense too.

Gmanc711 · 02-24-2004, 08:29 PM

Same here, I'm not the king or anything lol. I just think that Portis can give us exactly what we need for our offense, I want to agree and say we are avoiding the defnese, but really the offseason hasent even started yet. I just think its good to go with a sure thing at this point than another maybe, cause we already have ton of those on our roster. Who knows, I'm in favor, I get where eveyone is coming from though, whos not.

skinsfan26 · 02-24-2004, 08:33 PM

If we do get Portis, there is no doubt we will be a deadly offensive team. Coles, Gardner, OL, Portis, Ramsey or Brunell. It will be almost unstoppable offense. On D we will be crushed by ur div opponents in the passing game. Rumor around the league of Keshawn going to Dallas and TO going to Philly will hurt us a lot. Who will cover these guyz? I think we need champ for that reason, but I also understand that it is impossible to meet champ demands considering other wholes we have. I would say we should deal with Detroit instead of Denver and built ur team with the picks acquired from them.

Daseal · 02-24-2004, 08:36 PM

I think Champ for Portis straight up is a good deal. Both want out, Both are all-pro players, both are great people.

Each team wins.

skins009 · 02-24-2004, 08:40 PM

Hail to the redskins is exactly right. We would have a good offense, but defense wins championships. If you don't believe that just look at what happened to KC, Min. Both teams with great offenses, but no defense and they ended up no doing anything. I say trade bailey to Detroit.

Gmanc711 · 02-24-2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan26

If we do get Portis, there is no doubt we will be a deadly offensive team. Coles, Gardner, OL, Portis, Ramsey or Brunell. It will be almost unstoppable offense. On D we will be crushed by ur div opponents in the passing game. Rumor around the league of Keshawn going to Dallas and TO going to Philly will hurt us a lot. Who will cover these guyz? I think we need champ for that reason, but I also understand that it is impossible to meet champ demands considering other wholes we have. I would say we should deal with Detroit instead of Denver and built ur team with the picks acquired from them.

I need Sean Taylor in my life. Can he play any corner? Everyone says he cover's like a corner and hits like a LB, I mean our safteys arent terrible or anything, could we draft Taylor and make him a cornerback?

Hail to the Redskins · 02-24-2004, 08:43 PM

I could swallow that ... one-for-one ... but losing that 2nd round pick?? OUCH..

THAT, I couldn't take...
that's basically a 1st round talent guy there at #41 (9th pick in 2nd round) who slipped for some stupid reason (example Portis, Smoot, and Taylor Jacobs)... a possible defensive line starter!

Gmanc711 · 02-24-2004, 08:53 PM

If we pass on taylor and trade down, are there any teams in like the 7-9 range that REALLY wanna swap first round picks for their first and second. That way we really get the best of both worlds. I dont thnk any team would wanna trade down and give up a second round pick for two slots, but if the right player is there, who knows

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 02-24-2004, 09:05 PM

Where did you hear that we were close to signing Shawn Springs?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 02-24-2004, 09:13 PM

I'm still in favor of the signing.

1. We're gonna pay top dollar to keep Bailey (if we don't trade him)
2. We need to consummate a deal soon to stay well beneath the cap for FA
3. I'm not so sure the Lions would give their 1st pick + another pick
4. Portis will demand a LOT less than Bailey (probably 5 million/yr. not 9 mill)
5. The 6th overall pick is going to cost a boatload to sign
6. If you trade down from #6, you're going to pay a boatload for 2 high picks
7. The draft can be risky (see Desmond Howard et al)
8. Gibbs' system requires a top notch, proven back
9. Top notch proven backs don't come cheap (unless they're old)
10. Portis is, IMHO, the best back in the league and is one of the youngest
11. Signing Kearse, Springs, & Gardener/Washington will offset Champ's loss

skinsfan26 · 02-24-2004, 09:19 PM

I would want skins to draft sean taylor as well, but I am not sure if he will be available for us. I think detroit have their eyes on him n they will trade will giant for the 4th overall. Giants will trade bc they know we won't pick OT gallery at 5th and they can get another pick by trading down 2 spots. If this happens I would trade down and get Defensive lineman.

View Poll Results: Champ and our 2nd rounder to Denver for Portis, your thoughts?
Great move!	31	59.62%
Bad move!	6	11.54%
I'm not sure	15	28.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

02-24-2004, 07:54 PM	#1
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	All NOT in favor of Portis deal! OK, seriously, let's break this down... because once you do, you realize how dumb this move is. First, let me say Clinton Portis is young, and a great back... he'd be a great RB for us... BUT Let's look at it from these 2 angles... Situation A---> We get Portis at RB, get rid of posssibly the best CB in the game AND a 2nd rounder. Problems with this are: 1) OK, this leaves us with just a 1st and 5th round pick and thats IT. 2) Portis won't come THAT much cheaper than Champ (He has been quoted as saying "I'm one of the top 5 RB's in the game and I deserved to be paid like one." 3) We have a gaping hole at CB. 4) We STILL have gaping holes on D-Line. 5) 3 & 4 combined = Our defense is actually getting WORSE! 6) Money to sign S. Springs (who were are close to signing), J. Kearse, and T. Washington? MAYBE those 3, but nothing more than that! (see #2) 6) Gibbs/Bugel O-Lines have never needed a superstar RB. Situation B ---> We trade Champ to DET for a 1st (6th overall) and 3rd (or 4th) Rd Pick... then trade down a couple slots from #6 and take Kevin Jones. 1) Can anyone here argue that K. Jones skills do not look an awful lot like C. Portis' coming out of college? (Portis ran for 1,500 rookie yr) if not better?? (Kevin Jones runs a 4.3 - 40) ... i think they do. 2) At #5 we can take S. Taylor or trade one down, get D-Line guy, get a TE or young CB in the second (the one we AREN'T trading to DEN), and someone else in the 3rd, meaning ... lots of young affordable talent coming in. 3) We'd have PLENTY of cap space to get a S. Springs (or better), J. Kearse, T.Washington, J. Kleinsasser, and more. My point is ... is Kevin Jones THAT much worse than Portis? In one scenario, we'd have Portis at RB, a nice sized cap hit, limited ability to be active in free agency, and only 1st and 5th round picks to help the defense... In the other, we'd have K. Jones at RB, a MUCH lower cap hit (rookie contract), ability to be more active in free agency, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd (or 4th), and 5th round picks to fill the hole Champ leaves and the one on the D-Line. I mean... to me, it just makes sense... don't be wowed by a name guys... running backs are found and made EVERY year. __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

02-24-2004, 08:43 PM	#11
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	I could swallow that ... one-for-one ... but losing that 2nd round pick?? OUCH.. THAT, I couldn't take... that's basically a 1st round talent guy there at #41 (9th pick in 2nd round) who slipped for some stupid reason (example Portis, Smoot, and Taylor Jacobs)... a possible defensive line starter! __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

02-24-2004, 08:53 PM	#12
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	If we pass on taylor and trade down, are there any teams in like the 7-9 range that REALLY wanna swap first round picks for their first and second. That way we really get the best of both worlds. I dont thnk any team would wanna trade down and give up a second round pick for two slots, but if the right player is there, who knows __________________ #21

02-24-2004, 08:00 PM	#2
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Is this you bowels? The fact is , I do not like parting with our second rounder, and I dont see how that wasent better negoiated, but Portis vs Jones, Portis in a heartbeat. There are lots of back that look amazing coming outta college that stink, Portis has proven what he can do on a professional level. __________________ #21

02-24-2004, 08:12 PM	#3
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	I agree with httr, I am also afraid SS's shadow is still empailing our team, he made player's look so useless that nobody believes any of these guy's are capable of finding the field, let alone play. to bad we will lose champ for a back we don't need, and have holes in area's that we do need, I guess we just send the rest of our back's packing at this point, if we go this route bett's was another obvious waste of a pick for us, but not for the team that will give him a chance.

02-24-2004, 08:12 PM	#4
Teemotay Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 30	I don't think the question is Portis vs Jones.....it's a matter of $$$. For what Portis will want, we could sign Jones and probably 2 or 3 more guys to help fill some needs.

02-24-2004, 08:14 PM	#5
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	Yep, it's me ... figured I needed a REAL 'skinsfans screen name I am not saying Kevin Jones is better than Portis right now... but considering all those other factors?? Cap space to signs defensive help and the 3 extra picks we'd get instead on TOP of having Jones?? I just don't think he is, or COULD be, THAT much worse.. and I am not that big a Kevin Jones fan!! hahaha I just think this deal is stupid... just like the Brunell deal... we are spending our money at QB and RB... I know they may be the 2 most important positions... but damn, Patrick Ramsey isn't as talented as Jake Delhomme??????? I mean, we'll be running a system VERY symiliar to dan Hennings (Gibbs' old OC) offense in Carolina. And all these people think Ramsey "isn't ready" to lead a team throguh the playoffs? Delhomme was??? The idea of "Super Bowl QB's" are blown WAY out of proportion. So is the idea of bringing in Brunell with a SIGNING BONUS worth more than million dollars richer than Ramsey's whole 5 year deal! Also... Running Backs are made every year... look at Ahman Grren leaving Seattle, Priest Holmes leaving Baltimore, and Quinton Griffin filling in for CLINTON PORTIS!!! With a good offensive line... which we WILL have this year, you can MAKE a good back out of Betts, McCullough OR Greg Jones (2nd round pick) and leave those 2 first round picks for defense... I dunno... it's just my opinion, I could be wrong ... but I think the move hurts the overall TEAM. We DO need a defense too. __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

02-24-2004, 08:29 PM	#6
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Same here, I'm not the king or anything lol. I just think that Portis can give us exactly what we need for our offense, I want to agree and say we are avoiding the defnese, but really the offseason hasent even started yet. I just think its good to go with a sure thing at this point than another maybe, cause we already have ton of those on our roster. Who knows, I'm in favor, I get where eveyone is coming from though, whos not. __________________ #21

02-24-2004, 08:33 PM	#7
skinsfan26 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 11	If we do get Portis, there is no doubt we will be a deadly offensive team. Coles, Gardner, OL, Portis, Ramsey or Brunell. It will be almost unstoppable offense. On D we will be crushed by ur div opponents in the passing game. Rumor around the league of Keshawn going to Dallas and TO going to Philly will hurt us a lot. Who will cover these guyz? I think we need champ for that reason, but I also understand that it is impossible to meet champ demands considering other wholes we have. I would say we should deal with Detroit instead of Denver and built ur team with the picks acquired from them.

02-24-2004, 08:36 PM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	I think Champ for Portis straight up is a good deal. Both want out, Both are all-pro players, both are great people. Each team wins.

02-24-2004, 08:40 PM	#9
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	Hail to the redskins is exactly right. We would have a good offense, but defense wins championships. If you don't believe that just look at what happened to KC, Min. Both teams with great offenses, but no defense and they ended up no doing anything. I say trade bailey to Detroit.

02-24-2004, 09:05 PM	#13
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	Where did you hear that we were close to signing Shawn Springs?

02-24-2004, 09:13 PM	#14
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	I'm still in favor of the signing. 1. We're gonna pay top dollar to keep Bailey (if we don't trade him) 2. We need to consummate a deal soon to stay well beneath the cap for FA 3. I'm not so sure the Lions would give their 1st pick + another pick 4. Portis will demand a LOT less than Bailey (probably 5 million/yr. not 9 mill) 5. The 6th overall pick is going to cost a boatload to sign 6. If you trade down from #6, you're going to pay a boatload for 2 high picks 7. The draft can be risky (see Desmond Howard et al) 8. Gibbs' system requires a top notch, proven back 9. Top notch proven backs don't come cheap (unless they're old) 10. Portis is, IMHO, the best back in the league and is one of the youngest 11. Signing Kearse, Springs, & Gardener/Washington will offset Champ's loss

02-24-2004, 09:19 PM	#15
skinsfan26 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 42 Posts: 11	I would want skins to draft sean taylor as well, but I am not sure if he will be available for us. I think detroit have their eyes on him n they will trade will giant for the 4th overall. Giants will trade bc they know we won't pick OT gallery at 5th and they can get another pick by trading down 2 spots. If this happens I would trade down and get Defensive lineman.

All NOT in favor of Portis deal!

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