What Does Jason Elam's New Deal Say About Loyalty and Respect for Kickers?

[Redskins247]

Ok, so after I saw Jason Elam is NOW with the Falcons and won't finish his career with the team that he won so many games for so many years...not to mention Vinatieri leaving New England...I just can't believe teams have no loyalty to this often over-looked crucial position. I know it's just business, and every team has to make the decisions based on what's best for the team in the long run....but after seeing the loyalty to Brett Favre in Green Bay, basically saying he'd be the QB there until he was ready to leave...it saddens me to think back when players like Montana and Rice had to finish their careers in other places.

If you were the GM or owner, would you have given the $$$ to Elam, Vinatieri, or even Mosley for that matter??

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Ok, so after I saw Jason Elam is NOW with the Falcons and won't finish his career with the team that he won so many games for so many years...not to mention Vinatieri leaving New England...I just can't believe teams have no loyalty to this often over-looked crucial position. I know it's just business, and every team has to make the decisions based on what's best for the team in the long run....but after seeing the loyalty to Brett Favre in Green Bay, basically saying he'd be the QB there until he was ready to leave...it saddens me to think back when players like Montana and Rice had to finish their careers in other places.

If you were the GM or owner, would you have given the $$$ to Elam, Vinatieri, or even Mosley for that matter??

Definately not. Once a kicker hits his thirties, his leg strength starts decreasing and he becomes a player who can be easily and cheaply replaced and improved on.

Plus, if the player was in to 'loyalty' he would sign for the vet minimum and compete for his job. Elam did the right thing by taking the money elsewhere.

[Redskins8588]

Kickers are clutch for teams to have but I do not think that they can be quantified with the likes of Montana, Rice, and so many other greats that left their original team. Elam and Vinatieri did win games for their original teams no doubt, but at the end of the day they are still just kickers and in no way do they need to held in the same light as franchise QB's and great WR's. I mean where was this thread when Warren Sapp retired? Or when key offensive linemen switch teams? Kickers come and go, some are better than others but they can be replaced...

[dmek25]

this is why the NBA is the best, when it comes to the salary cap. they have the Larry Bird rule. when you can sign a vet at max money, and only a portion counts against the cap. trying to encourage stars to finish their careers where they started it

[lwiedy]

Originally Posted by dmek25

this is why the NBA is the best, when it comes to the salary cap. they have the Larry Bird rule. when you can sign a vet at max money, and only a portion counts against the cap. trying to encourage stars to finish their careers where they started it

The New York Knicks didn’t get $82 million over the salary cap in 2006-07 with “Larry Bird exceptions”. The NBA cap is a joke, they say there is a cap but what is the penalty for exceeding it, luxury tax. So there is no cap, just a suggestion and a fee.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by lwiedy

The New York Knicks didn’t get $82 million over the salary cap in 2006-07 with “Larry Bird exceptions”. The NBA cap is a joke, they say there is a cap but what is the penalty for exceeding it, luxury tax. So there is no cap, just a suggestion and a fee.

I don't think you're giving his point a chance, the knicks are over the cap because they've managed it poorly & signed a bunch of big name old free agents. It obviously hasn't gotten them too far. Sound famililar?

The point of the bird exception is that a team has a competitive edge to retain its players. It has kept stars w/their teams longer IMO. It doesn't prevent them from being traded, e.g. Garnett to Boston, but trades can come about due to players and/or management desires.

the nfl would benefit more from a similar rule. I could see it replacing the franchise tag in a new collective bargaining agreement. Especially the Skins, danny would gladly pay 10-15% extra to keep some guys.

[heybigstar]

Originally Posted by lwiedy

The New York Knicks didn’t get $82 million over the salary cap in 2006-07 with “Larry Bird exceptions”. The NBA cap is a joke, they say there is a cap but what is the penalty for exceeding it, luxury tax. So there is no cap, just a suggestion and a fee.

The NBA salary cap is a lot more complicated and restrictive then you suggest above.

In fact, it is setup to reward teams for keeping its current players.

This off season, the Wizards could go over the cap resigning one of their own players (i.e Arenas), but not a player from another team.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by dmek25

this is why the NBA is the best, when it comes to the salary cap. they have the Larry Bird rule. when you can sign a vet at max money, and only a portion counts against the cap. trying to encourage stars to finish their careers where they started it

On the flip side the NBA cap also cripples teams by saddling them with contracts they can never get out from under threby creating a system in which 75% of the teams can be eliminated from contention on opening day.

[djnemo65]

I don't think loyalty should a factor, but do I think teams continue to underestimate the ease with which they can replace reliable kickers. For such an unheralded position it can be the difference between defeat and dynasty, as the Patriots show.

We saw in the Superbowl the Patriots pass on a field goal opportunity on fourth and long, in a game they ended up losing by 3 points. You have to think they would have been more keen to attempt it if they still had Vinatieri back there.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I don't think loyalty should a factor, but do I think teams continue to underestimate the ease with which they can replace reliable kickers. For such an unheralded position it can be the difference between defeat and dynasty, as the Patriots show.

We saw in the Superbowl the Patriots pass on a field goal opportunity on fourth and long, in a game they ended up losing by 3 points. You have to think they would have been more keen to attempt it if they still had Vinatieri back there.

good point about that fg opp. It's been talked about a lot, but I never heard anyone say, 'what if vinatieri was still there?'

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

We saw in the Superbowl the Patriots pass on a field goal opportunity on fourth and long, in a game they ended up losing by 3 points. You have to think they would have been more keen to attempt it if they still had Vinatieri back there.

Possibly, but giving Belichick the benefit of the doubt here, I would have to imagine he would have gone for it even with Vinatieri on his roster. It was not a certain kick for any kicker, but it was certainly more within Gostkowski's range than it would have been for Vinatieri. Ultimately, the decision was made because the Pats have a great offense, and no matter who is kicking for them, they still have a great offense.

[dmek25]

all i was talking about was the veteran exception rule. that would be nice to have in the nfl. because we will probably never see another Darrell Green, or Brett Favre again. the player that stays with his original team for his whole career. seeing Art Monk in an ugly ass jets uniform is not how i want to remember him

[riggins44]

The NFL needs a veteran exception rule, to encourage home grown players.

In regard to kickers, it is hard to justify big bucks for an aging guy. You can a good young kicker for a lot less. The money you save could be spent elsewhere. It's rare to find a kicker worth major dollars.

I'm curious to see how Elam does in Atlanta. He will have the advantage of playing in a dome, but not the thinner air of Denver.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by riggins44

The NFL needs a veteran exception rule, to encourage home grown players.

In regard to kickers, it is hard to justify big bucks for an aging guy. You can a good young kicker for a lot less. The money you save could be spent elsewhere. It's rare to find a kicker worth major dollars.

I'm curious to see how Elam does in Atlanta. He will have the advantage of playing in a dome, but not the thinner air of Denver.

Elam is 26/32 career kicking in a dome. That's 81.3%, better than his 80.6% total career percentage. His long is 56 yards inside. Outside was 63 yards, which was in Denver's air. He's also a perfect 48/48 on PATs in domes. He's 601/604 total for his career on PATs so that stat really doesn't matter. He should have, and did, make them anywhere.


So, it looks like he might be a little more accurate indoors, but his career long and NFL-tying record kick was outside in Denver.

He should be about the same reliable kicker he's always been.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by riggins44

The NFL needs a veteran exception rule, to encourage home grown players.

In regard to kickers, it is hard to justify big bucks for an aging guy. You can a good young kicker for a lot less. The money you save could be spent elsewhere. It's rare to find a kicker worth major dollars.

I'm curious to see how Elam does in Atlanta. He will have the advantage of playing in a dome, but not the thinner air of Denver.

Let us not forget that Atlanta is built up in the Appalachian Mountains, and while it's not as high as Denver, it is the second highest altitude for a stadium in the NFL.