If Zorn Wins..........

[Giantone]

in his first season does Gibbs get any of the credit?I still think Gibbs is one of the best coachs ever in the NFL( no secret) but after talking to some Skins fans at work they feel Gibbs was what was wrong I on they other hand feel Gibbs kept you guys alive an didn't get half the credit due him.
Taylor's death and the way it happen could have made any team tank and I think Gibbs was the glue, add in him knowing about his sick grandson and I say it had to be one of his best coaching years.......discuss.

[Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor]

I for one believe that Gibbs was holding them back. I believe that he was scared to take chances and always playing not to lose. With Zorn I really believe that we will open up a lot more and take advantage of our talent that we have on the team. Zorn, being from the Holmgren tree, will be what we need on this team. Zorn will win!!! Draft Albert if he is available!!

[irish]

Originally Posted by Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor

I for one believe that Gibbs was holding them back. I believe that he was scared to take chances and always playing not to lose. With Zorn I really believe that we will open up a lot more and take advantage of our talent that we have on the team. Zorn, being from the Holmgren tree, will be what we need on this team. Zorn will win!!! Draft Albert if he is available!!

I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. Gibbs did build this roster but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. Gibbs did build this roster but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.

What imaginary tie? Remember, as you even point out, Gibbs was also President of the team setting the ulimate roster for years to come.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. Gibbs did build this roster but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.

You said it right there, what's imaginary about that?

When Gruden won the SB with Tampa, the point is always brought up that he basically did it with Dungy's team. That's a valid point to me, nothing imaginary about it.

As for a successful conclusion to Gibbs 2.0, personally I think the way they rallied down the stretch and made the playoffs when they were seemingly left for dead at 5-7 was a successful ending. It might not have ended with a Super Bowl, but life isn't perfect.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You said it right there, what's imaginary about that?

When Gruden won the SB with Tampa, the point is always brought up that he basically did it with Dungy's team. That's a valid point to me, nothing imaginary about it.

As for a successful conclusion to Gibbs 2.0, personally I think the way they rallied down the stretch and made the playoffs when they were seemingly left for dead at 5-7 was a successful ending. It might not have ended with a Super Bowl, but life isn't perfect.

I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.

Maybe for you it was, but putting everything in perspective I think it was a fitting ending. Classic Gibbs all the way. His teams always found a way to fight through adversity. Of course I would have loved to see him ride off with a SB win, but as I said life isn't perfect and in the end he left the team in better shape than it was when he got here.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.

Gibbs wasn't brought back for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl. He was also (perhaps more importantly) brought back to "right the ship" and restore some pride and purpose to the franchise for many years to come.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by irish

I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.

Did Gibbs turn you down for an autograph or something....

I had my problems with Gibbs 2.0, but bottom line is: 2 playoff appearances in 3 years is not a bad or "disappointing" tenure considering where we were before Gibbs came back. He definitely changed the culture around Redskins Park and brought respectability back to the franchise.

And yes, he will shoulder some responsibility for the roster going forward, win or lose.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Giantone

in his first season does Gibbs get any of the credit?I still think Gibbs is one of the best coachs ever in the NFL( no secret) but after talking to some Skins fans at work they feel Gibbs was what was wrong I on they other hand feel Gibbs kept you guys alive an didn't get half the credit due him.
Taylor's death and the way it happen could have made any team tank and I think Gibbs was the glue, add in him knowing about his sick grandson and I say it had to be one of his best coaching years.......discuss.

This is really a two part discussion, in my opinion. I think this team will suffer from the loss of Joe Gibbs as the leader of the football team. I think he did a tremendous job of rallying the team prior too and after Sean's death, and I think he had a uncanty ability to be lead a group of pro atheletes in a way most coaches wish they could, I think thats something Zorn will have to pick up on.....

At the same time, I am excited to (hopefully) see a different approach to playcalling, with hopefully more of a killer instict than we saw at some points during the season last year. I really think our offense will be much better this year under Zorn...its the defense I worry the most about.

Long story short though, Gibbs defintley deserves some credit for assembling this team, should Zorn have a real successful first season as head coach.

[mooby]

I think Gibbs did a fine job with this team. By the end of his tenure we had a pretty good roster and not enough can be said about his ability to motivate a team. If Zorn wins in his first season I believe Gibbs should be getting part of the credit because Zorn is pretty much inheriting Gibbs' roster, save for a few new draft picks. Having Gibbs had its' ups and downs, there were a few things Gibbs did wrong, and I didn't like some of the things he did but he had his good points too, i.e. he put together a nice roster and I think there was very few people who could have done the job he did after ST died.

[pstylee]

the bottom line is Gibbs=GOD in DC. I am in the military and if he told me to kill I would no questions asked. But I do agree there were times when he was holding back, and trying to play the game that he used to play. We no longer have Riggins, Riggs, etc, and the smash mouth game of yesteryear doesn't exist anymore. However, he was and always will a symbol of professionalism and a true coach, one that is dedicated to his team and tradition.

Now on to Zorn....with no proven track record all we as fans can do is hope. Hope that the team will buy into a new philosophy, a new scheme (at least offensively), a new identity, and mostly a new coach. But if you look at the Holmgren/Walsh coaching tree a lot of really good coaches have come out that mold. I am eager to see more of an open attack. While it may not be the deep down field passes, the game will be more fun to watch from a fan perspective. Plus with a zone blocking scheme, Portis will have more opportunity to show his dominance. With Moss, and ARE they will not be relied upon to make the big catch, just the YAC, which is there style of game anyways.

After lots of thinking and deliberating I am eager to see what happens. Overall I believe that in time, the skins will be back to dominance, as long as we start drafting for the future, and preserve our sense of winning. NO MORE BIG NAMES AT THE FA. Work on building the team from the young and instill in them what it takes to win at the next level.

[GTripp0012]

From a personnel standpoint, these are still Gibbs' guys, so if we win in the next three years, he should get a portion of the credit. Not as a coach though, just as the guy who built this current roster.

[ArcticRed]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

From a personnel standpoint, these are still Gibbs' guys, so if we win in the next three years, he should get a portion of the credit. Not as a coach though, just as the guy who built this current roster.

I agree, that he should get the credit of building the roster and the coaching staff.

On the opposite end, as a game day coach, I don’t think he intentionally played the offense conservatively. I think it was more the players not playing up to their ability. He expected perfection in every play, so when we took the few shots down field it would count. His team would rarely put together a consistent game. We only have a few games where the offense played a complete game all 4 quarters. The SF blow out, the Dallas game in Washington in 2005 to name the few. When they won those games I saw him open the offense up more the following game. Unfortunately they would take a step backward and Gibbs would rein them back in with his conservative play calling. This offense had to be incredibly frustrating for Gibbs to be so close but just can’t seem to get them to take that last step to consistency.

[Stuck in TX]

Gibbs went out and got some great talent for our roster. Also, I feel that Gibbs did a top-notch job mentally developing each and every person on the roster. Not a single team member was left out after the death of Sean Taylor. Everyone pulled together and got through it, feeding off of the perserverance that Joe Gibbs instills in each of his players. He got their heads ready for every game and every player knew they could win every game regardless of the final score. Every team has its player who messes up and sticks out as a trouble maker... except the Redskins.

I believe, just from what I have seen, Zorn lacks the mental aspect of the game. He has the fundementals, and will bring a whole new aproach to how to play football. Not a bad thing by any means. If you add the fundementals he has, along with the perserverance, heart, and teamwork that Gibbs left behind, and finally add the player development and skill position assets that Zorn offers.... We have a great team. I do not think we can win any games in the next five years without attributing at least a little credit to Mr. Gibbs.

One more thing... Joe Gibbs is in that front office serving as an advisor to the team. He is in Dannys box, sitting next to his throne. As long as Gibbs is whispering in Danny's ear, it would not be fair to exclude Gibbs from any of the credit dished out for the Redskins.