Sporting News Football '08: Redskins (Magazine)

[Dirtbag59]

I recently bought a football preview magazine and given that there hasn't been a lot to talk about lately I figured that I'd post a few points of interest from the Redskins part of the magazine. Note I copied these by.....hand so theres probably going to be a few spelling errors. This Thread is brought to you by the state of Georgia, for suspending my licence for the next 6 months all because I had a seizure.

Breakout Canidate: Anthony Montgomery DT
Montgomery has all the tools to be an elite-level player. He has long arms, a powerful upper body, a good base, and is quick off the ball. Montgomery made enormous imporovemnt from rookie year to his second season. Now that he has had a taste of success, and with the teams desire to get more of a pass rush out of its tackles, montgomery is in perfect position to have a breakout season

SN PICK 4th NFC East (4-12) [Bastards]

QB's - Jason Campbell new offense blah blah blah, 7,000th new offense since the birth of christ. hard worker, tall, strong arm, plays his guts out. Todd Collins came in did some things, been around the league long enough to grasp a system like Zorns that relys on decision making. Grade C

RB's - Two RB's awesome..blah blah blah. Clinton Portis tough and fast. Needs to work on catching. Betts tough inside runner.

"Mike Sellers has been frustrated that the fullback hasn't gotten many opportunites to carry the ball in the offense over the last two years. That could change this year. Sellers is massive physicall\y and has exceptional speed and agility for a man his size. He is also a devastating blocker."

Some guy named Rock is on the team. Marcus Mason will have a great preseason...oh wait. Grade A

Recievers - Moss is fast, adjust to the ball, durability concerns.

"Antwaan Randel EL showed marked improvement during his second season with the Redskins. A continuation of that improvement could wind up with Randle El catching 70-80 passes this season. The West Coast Offense should be a good fit for the seventh-year pro, espeically if the team can find a big reciver to line up outside, permitting Reanle El to move into the slot on third downs. Thomas and Kelly will compete for the job as the No 3 Reciever."

Cooley is 1337. Davis is talented but lazy. Grade - B

Offensive Line - "Is this group experienced or old?"

"However Casey Rabach is reaching the prime of his career. He has improved in each of the past three season, is strong at the point of attack, does a good job of making adjustments before the snap and is equally adept at run and pass blocking."

"Chris Samuels, 30, is the one lineman who has been able to avoid serious injuries and get better with age. Help could be coming down the pipeline. Stephon Heyer showed potential as a rookie last year. He was overmatched in the playoff game against Seattle defensive end Patrick Kerney, but if Heyer progresses normally in his second year he will eventually become a starter."

Grade - B

Redskins' Best-Ever LB's
1. Chris Hanburger (1965-78)
2. Sam Huff
3.......Lavar Arrington? (I shit you not. Number 3 is Lavar Arrington).

Draft Report - Grade - C

Thomas-Kelly are tall blah blah blah.

"Tight End Fred Davis has the athletiscism, hands, and receiving skills, but is not a competitive blocker and doesn't consistently play with passion. The talent is there for Davis to be a solid backcp to Chris Cooley, but he'll need to step up his competitiveness to do so. Third Round Pick Chad Rinehart showed at the Senior Bowl that he has what it takes to become a starter at RT or G. Cornerback Justin Tryon is a tough and highly aggressive player with the speed and explosivness to become a quality starter if he can overcome his lack of height. Kareem Moore is a safety with size, he must improve his technique in order to turn his athleticism into on field production."

Defense

Defensive Line - They're old but good. Nothing new here except the grade Grade B

Linebackers - Fletcher is a...veteran who, "excells at getting the players around him lined up correctly and demands accoutability from himself and his teamates. Fletcher improved the defense last year, and will continue to do so in 2008."

McIntosh is awesome but injury prone. Grade B

Secondary -Springs is old and and the teams best CB when healthy. We here at SN didn't read the KC Joyner article and so we say here that Smoot isn't playing like a starter anymore.

"The Safety spot is this even with one of the best defensive players in the league. Laron Landry came in as a rookie last year and was everything the Redskins hoped he would be. Landry became even more then Washington could have hoped for after the death of Sean Taylor. Landry's strong play earned him thre starting free safety spot in 2008 with Reed Doughty handling Strong Safety. Eventually they will need to find a playmaking FS so Landry can move back to strong, his best position.

Grade B-

Special Teams - Brooks is a punter. Frost started off strong ended not strong.

"Shaun Shuisam had several game winning kicks early in the year, but he ened the season by missing a crucial 30 yard field goal in the first round
playoff game against Seattle." Red Snapper is 1337.

Grade B-

Bottom Line Final Grade - 72 [Stock Report <<>> Steady]

[That Guy]

kinda worthless article :/ thanks for posting though.

[Daseal]

I feel like it was a solid assessment. The skins have a lot of question marks going into the season, the basement of the NFC east isn't an outrageous prediction. I could see us going anywhere from 2nd to 4th in the division. Either way, I don't think I see playoffs happening at this point. Who knows, maybe the team plays amazing and with a (gasp) aggressive offense we're able to really put things together, but in June I don't see it.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I feel like it was a solid assessment. The skins have a lot of question marks going into the season, the basement of the NFC east isn't an outrageous prediction. I could see us going anywhere from 2nd to 4th in the division. Either way, I don't think I see playoffs happening at this point. Who knows, maybe the team plays amazing and with a (gasp) aggressive offense we're able to really put things together, but in June I don't see it.

As a team that lost four heartbreakers in a row only to rebound and make the playoffs, other than head coach what question marks do we have? I see no reason our offense won't be vastly improved (young QB continuing to grow, offensive line that can't possibly more injured than last season, significant upgrades at the skill positions, and, let's face it, a more modern NFL offensive philosophy). While we do have some threatening injuries on defense, I think it's reasonable to expect a level of performance at least close to last year's. If anything we under achieved this previous season. What do you see that I don't that makes a 4-12 prediction seem anything other than outrageous?

If Zorn turns out to be a hack than yeah, maybe we'll be bad, but I am at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

As a team that lost four heartbreakers in a row only to rebound and make the playoffs, other than head coach what question marks do we have? I see no reason our offense won't be vastly improved (young QB continuing to grow, offensive line that can't possibly more injured than last season, significant upgrades at the skill positions, and, let's face it, a more modern NFL offensive philosophy). While we do have some threatening injuries on defense, I think it's reasonable to expect a level of performance at least close to last year's. If anything we under achieved this previous season. What do you see that I don't that makes a 4-12 prediction seem anything other than outrageous?

If Zorn turns out to be a hack than yeah, maybe we'll be bad, but I am at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Other than Zorn? Nothing.

But it's all about Zorn. Here's the thing, I'm a Redskin fan and traditionalist. To me, Joe Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time. How do you go from him to Jim Zorn, with basically the same player personnel, without taking a step back?

If Zorn puts up a better record than Gibbs, which I admit is possible, it will pretty much turn everything I know about coaching upside down.

But if I'm a betting man, I'm with Daseal. No playoffs for us this year. I won't go so far as 4-12; but if we make 8-8 in this division with a new coach, you'd have to be pleased with Zorn's first season.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Other than Zorn? Nothing.

But it's all about Zorn. Here's the thing, I'm a Redskin fan and traditionalist. To me, Joe Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time. How do you go from him to Jim Zorn, with basically the same player personnel, without taking a step back?

If Zorn puts up a better record than Gibbs, which I admit is possible, it will pretty much turn everything I know about coaching upside down.

But if I'm a betting man, I'm with Daseal. No playoffs for us this year. I won't go so far as 4-12; but if we make 8-8 in this division with a new coach, you'd have to be pleased with Zorn's first season.

Without rehashing for the umpteenth time the Gibbs/conservative playcalling issue, he/Al didn't get the most from our talent last year. There were flickers, but the burner never was turned past medium.

Here's where I think our offense will be much improved this year. To a man, we've heard the playmakers rave about what they've seen from Zorn's offense thus far. The common themes have been aggression, putting players in positions to make plays, playing to the offensive players strengths.

Maybe I am looking thru maroon and black colored glasses, but I think we're going to see an offense unlike what we've seen in DC in YEARS. I think JC is going to have a big year & Portis having a career year. I don't expect to see a breakout WR but more balanced numbers and consistency across the board. We're not going to be a remake of the '99 Rams or anything, but if we don't consistently put up 24-28 points, I will be surprised.

As someone else said, I have some questions on defense. While I didn't share the same man love most had for Grilliams, I don't know if Blache is the answer either. Again I'll refer to the players comments this offseason about how the schemes are much simpler (which also means they are simpler to scout against, but that's a different thread) and 'let guys make plays'.

If nothing else, at the end of the year we should know what kind of players we have. Are we talented enough to compete at the upper crust of the NFL as our FO seems to think or are we a collection of names who've had occassional moderate success and cashed in?

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Other than Zorn? Nothing.

But it's all about Zorn. Here's the thing, I'm a Redskin fan and traditionalist. To me, Joe Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time. How do you go from him to Jim Zorn, with basically the same player personnel, without taking a step back?

If Zorn puts up a better record than Gibbs, which I admit is possible, it will pretty much turn everything I know about coaching upside down.
But if I'm a betting man, I'm with Daseal. No playoffs for us this year. I won't go so far as 4-12; but if we make 8-8 in this division with a new coach, you'd have to be pleased with Zorn's first season.

Dude, don't forget that Gibbs had a SHIT load of injuries to deal with his last two season here. Last year we finished 9-7 with ALL of our starting recievers going down (we started James Thrash and Keenan McCardell for at least one game), two or three lineman go down, our quarterback, our starting corner, our starting outside linebacker..............Cooley, our only reciever that didn't get hurt had to stay in and help block until our coaches found Alexander (talk about being desperate). And lets not forget about Sean Taylor......................after all that we still made the play offs last year. We made it because of Gibbs. If Zorn goes through all that then I wouldn't be surprised if we go 4-12. But, if Zorn has a healthy team (he better, I'm getting tired of all these injuries) We'll finish first. It won't be so much about turning coaching upside down. It will be more about this team FINALLY playing to its full potential.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Other than Zorn? Nothing.

But it's all about Zorn. Here's the thing, I'm a Redskin fan and traditionalist. To me, Joe Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time. How do you go from him to Jim Zorn, with basically the same player personnel, without taking a step back?

If Zorn puts up a better record than Gibbs, which I admit is possible, it will pretty much turn everything I know about coaching upside down.

But if I'm a betting man, I'm with Daseal. No playoffs for us this year. I won't go so far as 4-12; but if we make 8-8 in this division with a new coach, you'd have to be pleased with Zorn's first season.

I don't have the stats to back this up, but I'm more concerned with year two of the Zorn era (should there be a year two of course). I see guys like Mangini and Payton come guns a blazing there first year, but then experience a bit of a sophomore slump.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

As a team that lost four heartbreakers in a row only to rebound and make the playoffs, other than head coach what question marks do we have? I see no reason our offense won't be vastly improved (young QB continuing to grow, offensive line that can't possibly more injured than last season, significant upgrades at the skill positions, and, let's face it, a more modern NFL offensive philosophy). While we do have some threatening injuries on defense, I think it's reasonable to expect a level of performance at least close to last year's. If anything we under achieved this previous season. What do you see that I don't that makes a 4-12 prediction seem anything other than outrageous?

If Zorn turns out to be a hack than yeah, maybe we'll be bad, but I am at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Where are the "significant upgrades at the skill positions" ?? Do you mean the draft picks? Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas? If they collectively amass 50 receptions this year, we should feel lucky.

The offensive line couldn't be more injured than they were last year? I hope you knocked on wood when you typed that.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

As a team that lost four heartbreakers in a row only to rebound and make the playoffs, other than head coach what question marks do we have? I see no reason our offense won't be vastly improved (young QB continuing to grow, offensive line that can't possibly more injured than last season, significant upgrades at the skill positions, and, let's face it, a more modern NFL offensive philosophy). While we do have some threatening injuries on defense, I think it's reasonable to expect a level of performance at least close to last year's. If anything we under achieved this previous season. What do you see that I don't that makes a 4-12 prediction seem anything other than outrageous?

If Zorn turns out to be a hack than yeah, maybe we'll be bad, but I am at least willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yea, but the QB that got things heading in the right direction will not be starting on Sundays. I think this is JC years to show he belongs in the NFL.

[MTK]

4-12?

That's a bit of a worse case scenario isn't it?

[Daseal]

Nemo:

Here are my questions. Jason Campbell. I love the guy, but it's got to be a big year for him. Granted, all these new systems isn't fair for him -- but as he goes, we go -- and I'm not sure hes ready yet. Especially since we're switching offenses this year. Secondly, where do you see huge upgrades at skill positions. We have more or less three rookie receivers (Davis isn't exactly an inline blocking type of TE), rookie receivers typically have little to no impact. RBs will be the same, as will QB -- so skill positions are the same.

However, my concern comes on the defense. From what I understand, Blache is a Dline rush coverage type guy -- which I don't think works for this team. That and I'm not sold he's a quarter of what GWill was. Also -- Rocky and Carlos probably not being there on opening day is huge, along with the question mark that is Marcus Washington. I think our defense falls off rather significantly, and our offense improves some.

Granted, it's June. Maybe I'll feel better when I see a few practices in training camp, or when I hear the injured guys are working out.

Please don't take this as a knock on Zorn. I actually think he's a great candidate. But lets be realistic, he was a quarterbacks coach less than a year ago. The adjustment might be more steep than he was expecting and it takes a while to implement an offense.

Now, 4-12 is ridiculous. I expect us to be at worse 6-10. at best 10-6. But I think in our division -- even 9-7 may not land us the 2nd spot.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Nemo:

Here are my questions. Jason Campbell. I love the guy, but it's got to be a big year for him. Granted, all these new systems isn't fair for him -- but as he goes, we go -- and I'm not sure hes ready yet. Especially since we're switching offenses this year. Secondly, where do you see huge upgrades at skill positions. We have more or less three rookie receivers (Davis isn't exactly an inline blocking type of TE), rookie receivers typically have little to no impact. RBs will be the same, as will QB -- so skill positions are the same.

However, my concern comes on the defense. From what I understand, Blache is a Dline rush coverage type guy -- which I don't think works for this team. That and I'm not sold he's a quarter of what GWill was. Also -- Rocky and Carlos probably not being there on opening day is huge, along with the question mark that is Marcus Washington. I think our defense falls off rather significantly, and our offense improves some.

Granted, it's June. Maybe I'll feel better when I see a few practices in training camp, or when I hear the injured guys are working out.

Please don't take this as a knock on Zorn. I actually think he's a great candidate. But lets be realistic, he was a quarterbacks coach less than a year ago. The adjustment might be more steep than he was expecting and it takes a while to implement an offense.

Now, 4-12 is ridiculous. I expect us to be at worse 6-10. at best 10-6. But I think in our division -- even 9-7 may not land us the 2nd spot.

Fair enough, I don't think 6-10 is unreasonable at all, just because of how close the division currently is. A few ball bounces will account for 3 or more wins or losses. The issue I have is with a playoff team keeping its roster intact while being picked to finish a full 5 wins lower. How do you rationalize that?

And Beemen, I consider Thomas, Kelly, and Davis to be significant upgrades. Regarding your certainty that the two former will not exceed 50 catches this season, if that happens they will have been big fat busts, since they will be used immediately and will get plenty of opportunities. While that's possible, I don't think its unreasonable to expect one to make a serious impact his first year, thus my choice of the word significant. If I'm wrong about that, as you seem convinced I will be, then I will probably also be wrong about the Skins being a playoff team next season. If I'm right I am going to laugh at you, not invite you to my playoff party, and then email you pictures showing how fun it was afterwards

Last year's offensive line situation was unusual, and was in many ways a perfect storm. I should say I think its also unlikely they will be equally or more injured this season; if they are we will probably be in trouble.

Just out of curiousity Beemen are you going on the record as picking them to finish last this season like the author of the article in question?

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

And Beemen, I consider Thomas, Kelly, and Davis to be significant upgrades. Regarding your certainty that the two former will not exceed 50 catches this season, if that happens they will have been big fat busts, since they will be used immediately and will get plenty of opportunities. While that's possible, I don't think its unreasonable to expect one to make a serious impact his first year, thus my choice of the word significant. If I'm wrong about that, as you seem convinced I will be, then I will probably also be wrong about the Skins being a playoff team next season.

The problem is that most rookie wr's don't have immediate impacts. Especially with a QB learning a new system. One will be a number 2 and one will be a number 4 (barring injuries). Their biggest addition will be in the Red Zone when their size and hands will offset their inexperience. I wouldn't be suprised to see Cooley and three rookies on the field every time we are inside the 15 while he will be with Moss and ARE the majority of time outisde of scoring position (so either leading the team in TD receptions while all three combining for 50 receptions is highly likely). That being said, neither should be considered a bust for at least two full seasons despite not taking over the game as a rookie (like Randy Moss did). As unpredictible as drafting a wr is, either could be a pro bowler in a few years though fans will have to expect mistakes along the way. Still, don't be suprised if we are in the WildCard game again this year.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

And Beemen, I consider Thomas, Kelly, and Davis to be significant upgrades. Regarding your certainty that the two former will not exceed 50 catches this season, if that happens they will have been big fat busts, since they will be used immediately and will get plenty of opportunities. While that's possible, I don't think its unreasonable to expect one to make a serious impact his first year, thus my choice of the word significant. If I'm wrong about that, as you seem convinced I will be, then I will probably also be wrong about the Skins being a playoff team next season. If I'm right I am going to laugh at you, not invite you to my playoff party, and then email you pictures showing how fun it was afterwards

Last year's offensive line situation was unusual, and was in many ways a perfect storm. I should say I think its also unlikely they will be equally or more injured this season; if they are we will probably be in trouble.

Just out of curiousity Beemen are you going on the record as picking them to finish last this season like the author of the article in question?

I have no idea what they'll do this year. I go back and forth, wondering what 2008 will hold, but more often than not, I tend to think that they probably won't do as well as 9-7. 4-12 might be a little extreme, but after the dream season of 2005, did anyone expect a 6-10 season from a Joe Gibbs-led team when everyone (including me) thought they had it all figured out? Chalk it up to complete inexperience with head coaching -- we'd be delirious to think that Zorn will step right in without any growing pains and instantaneously hit on all cylinders right off the bat.

Also consider that, (and this is the root of our disagreement) there were really no improvements to the receiving group whatsoever. I know you count Kelly, Thomas, and Davis. Sorry, I just don't see it. Not yet anyway. Moss, Cooley, and Randle El have amounted to an average passing threat when you look at year-end statistics -- they just can't seem to break out of the middle of the pack. But don't expect the coaches to be convinced of that to the extent that they'll toss out Randle El and hand it all over to Thomas or Kelly. Everyone around the league still lives with the completely irrational notion that Randle El really is an elite wideout.

Then there's the defense. We have durability concerns with Smoot, Springs, and Rogers coming off that knee surgery. No upgrades at the pass rush other than more dumpster diving through the Vikings' trash with Erasmus James. Despite an obvious decline with Marcus Washington, a hobbling Rocky McIntosh, and an aging London Fletcher, the linebackers seem solid, but they might also be teetering on the edge. Other than run-stopping, we just don't have a solid checkmark anywhere on D.

I guess I just don't think it's impossible for this team to finish way below expectations regardless of the previous season's results. We saw it with Ritchie Petitbon in 1993, another guy with no head coaching experience. They finished 4-12 then. I certainly hope they don't finish that way, but I suppose I'm just not blind to the possibility of everything blowing up in Zorn's face in his first season the way others apparently are.