Wanted: Playmakers

[diehard]

Moss? Check.
Cooley? Check.
Randle El (now known as Santonio Holmes)? Check.
Jason Campbell? Hmmm.

I too am warming up to the idea that if we want to get to the promise land it may take drafting Sanchez or probably giving Colt Brennan a shot. Why? It's no secret that Campbell has had a lot of instablility as far a OCs go but, look at his game. Even at Auburn his impressive W-L record and national championship title was helped much by a strong defense and running game (Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown). This reveals Campbell strengths. He does a great job making safe reads and takes very few chances with the football. The Skins have had a top 5 defense for most of the years he's started and a very effective running game so, we can afford to be more risky in that regard. Also, even though we have had great defenses, we are not one that have a lot of takeaways, or points off of, as the 2000 Ravens did. And before you say the WR corps was the culprit, Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are better than Cutler's Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, and Daniel Graham/Tony Sheffler. I believe Cutler's big numbers are a result of his ability to let it fly (watch what he does in CHI under his new OC and former FA bust Brandon Lloyd and REL-like Devin Hester). Something Campbell doesn't risk doing often. That's why Jay Cutler or a Brett Farve will have a eye-popping number of INTs to go with thier impressive TD stats. Who's to argue that Farve isn't a winner? A franchise QB? A team can surely win with Jason Campbell or a Trent Dilfer but, you have to make sure other attributes of the team make up for the lack of risk taking.

[53Fan]

Another Campbell bashing thread?

[diehard]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Another Campbell bashing thread?

No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by diehard

No. Campbell just doesn't fit where we are right now as a defense. If we commit to him and re-sign him for another multi-year deal we're in for more mediocrity as we'll spend more money and draft picks on FAs trying to make his production go up or get more points off TOs. That's what we've done. He's a great guy and a better QB than more than half of the leagues' starers. My question is to you is: Do you want to get to the next level or continue to be one step away?

I didnt know Campbell played defense

[Lotus]

You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?

I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.

As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.

The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Lotus

You have Randle El listed as a playmaker?

Yes. REL is a playmaker. He's proved that before signing with us. Would you say Santonio Holmes or Devin Hester are play makers? The answer is, with the right QB, (Cutler, Roethlisberger) definitely yes.

Originally Posted by Lotus

I agree that JC has to go down field more often and show off that cannon arm. Nonetheless, in a new system in 2008, and behind a creaky OL, JC's qb rating was better than Favre, Flacco, Kerry Collins, and Roethlisberger. His completion percentage was better than Romo, Eli Manning, and Matt Ryan. He also threw for more yards than Eli Manning. And he threw fewer interceptions than just about everyone who starts. JC actually makes more good plays than you give him credit for.

I'm not taking away Campbell's QB rating or his safe decision making. Just as your posts states, QB ratings obviously don't get you into the playoffs. I'd rather have a one of those QBs you mentioned and have a shot at postseason play than have a QB with a perfect QB rating and miss the playoffs.

Originally Posted by Lotus

As for bad plays, I will argue against Favre. Except when Green Bay had a solid defense and a good running game in the late '90s, Green Bay was up-and-down with Favre. So were the Jets. Cutler has a sub-.500 record as a starter.

GB had more winning seasons than losses with Farve and did they ever win the SB? You know the team that Farve is playing on always had a chance, even last years NYJ. As for DEN they were ranked near the bottom as far as defense goes.

Originally Posted by Lotus

The fact is, Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than they are with wild gunslingers. During the course of a 3 or 4 game playoff run, a wild gunslinger is going to kill you, sooner or later, with picks. On this note the 2007 Giants still owe Favre a thank-you card.

On the contrary. Defense wins championships. And we don't do a lot of scoring of turnovers (see James Harrison and his low rating QB Roethlsberger)

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by diehard

Yes. REL is a playmaker. He's proved that before signing with us. Would you say Santonio Holmes or Devin Hester are play makers? The answer is, with the right QB, (Cutler, Roethlisberger) definitely yes.

I'm not taking away Campbell's QB rating or his safe decision making. Just as your posts states, QB ratings obviously don't get you into the playoffs. I'd rather have a one of those QBs you mentioned and have a shot at postseason play than have a QB with a perfect QB rating and miss the playoffs.

GB had more winning seasons than losses with Farve and did they ever win the SB? You know the team that Farve is playing on always had a chance, even last years NYJ. As for DEN they were ranked near the bottom as far as defense goes.

On the contrary. Defense wins championships. And we don't do a lot of scoring of turnovers (see James Harrison and his low rating QB Roethlsberger)

Randle El may have been a playmaker with Pittsburgh. He has not been one with us.

As to your next point, Cutler and Favre did not make the playoffs last year. Your argument that you would rather have Cutler or Favre and make the playoffs is fallacious.

Next point: No, the team with Favre did not always have a chance, not when he threw for multiple interceptions in a game, as he often did.

Of course defense wins championships, unless a wild gunslinger quarterback screws it up by throwing interceptions. A good defense WANTS a qb who is careful with the ball, not a qb who gives the opposition points. The only time a gunslinger might be desirable is if one has a bad defense. Even then the winning percentage is not great.

Back to the basic point - history has shown that Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than those who are irresponsible with it. And I'd like to see us win another Super Bowl, not just put on a good offensive show only to have our hearts broken by a stupid interception.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Randle El may have been a playmaker with Pittsburgh. He has not been one with us.

As to your next point, Cutler and Favre did not make the playoffs last year. Your argument that you would rather have Cutler or Favre and make the playoffs is fallacious.

Next point: No, the team with Favre did not always have a chance, not when he threw for multiple interceptions in a game, as he often did.

Of course defense wins championships, unless a wild gunslinger quarterback screws it up by throwing interceptions. A good defense WANTS a qb who is careful with the ball, not a qb who gives the opposition points. The only time a gunslinger might be desirable is if one has a bad defense. Even then the winning percentage is not great.

Back to the basic point - history has shown that Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than those who are irresponsible with it. And I'd like to see us win another Super Bowl, not just put on a good offensive show only to have our hearts broken by a stupid interception.

So you believe the only way to improve this team is to spend more money and draft picks on improving the fourth ranked defense? Many did not want to draft WRs last year either.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by diehard

So you believe the only way to improve this team is to spend more money and draft picks on improving the fourth ranked defense? Many did not want to draft WRs last year either.

No. You are not paying attention. What I believe is that you are mistaken in the points which you have made. That is all.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Randle El may have been a playmaker with Pittsburgh. He has not been one with us.

As to your next point, Cutler and Favre did not make the playoffs last year. Your argument that you would rather have Cutler or Favre and make the playoffs is fallacious.

Next point: No, the team with Favre did not always have a chance, not when he threw for multiple interceptions in a game, as he often did.

Of course defense wins championships, unless a wild gunslinger quarterback screws it up by throwing interceptions. A good defense WANTS a qb who is careful with the ball, not a qb who gives the opposition points. The only time a gunslinger might be desirable is if one has a bad defense. Even then the winning percentage is not great.

Back to the basic point - history has shown that Super Bowls are more often won with qb's who are careful with the ball than those who are irresponsible with it. And I'd like to see us win another Super Bowl, not just put on a good offensive show only to have our hearts broken by a stupid interception.

You're right. Even great QB like Manning didn't find success in the post season until they stopped turning the ball over as much. There's a reason Favre hadn't gone back to a Super Bowl in his last 10 years, he believed too many of his own press clippings about being a 'gunslinger' and lived down to his reputation.
Someone smarter than me can probably find this on the interweb, but I don't think a QB who led the league in TD passes has ever won the Super Bowl.

[Zerohero]

Hmm i have yet to make a thread, but don't worry it will somehow involve Sanchez, Booing Campbell, Calling ARE a playmaker. Gimme a sec still laughing bout calling ARE a playmaker. Will be a poll too, with vague answers, still working on it.

[GMScud]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

Um, hello, clearly we needed another thread about this topic because it has not been adequately covered on this site. If you were some guy who just joined the board you would understand that.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Um, hello, clearly we needed another thread about this topic because it has not been adequately covered on this site. If you were some guy who just joined the board you would understand that.

You could say the same for 9/10 of the threads on the board...

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by diehard

You could say the same for 9/10 of the threads on the board...

If everybody jumped off a bridge ...