O-Line

jbcjr14 · 11-16-2004, 08:35 AM

Guys. I am happy that #11 is now in the game as the starter, but if you look at the games (I have watched a few a second time), the offensive line is horrible in pass protection! They are really struggling on the the right side of the line. Most of the corner and safety blitzes are coming off the right side and the pocket continually collapses after about 3 seconds which clearly isn't enough time for WR's to get open. Look at St. Louis, NE, Philly, those QB's have all frickin day to throw the ball!

My point....

For Ramsey to have any chance of success, the offensive line better find a way to protect and open up some throwing lanes. The loss of Jansen is really showing as Ray Brown is just old and couldn't block my fat ass if I was coming off the corner on a Sunday afternoon stroll through the park. The left side appears to be ok and protects well in most cases. Buges better find a way to protect this week and next or Ramsey's season could be short lived.

Redskins_P · 11-16-2004, 08:43 AM

I think the O-line across the board is struggling. Both the left and right side. Samuels and Thomas have both been solid, but Dockery and Ol Ray Brown have struggled at times. Dockery missed that guy that came clean up the middle on that blitz.

Ramsey is gonna have to learn to either throw the ball to his "checkdown receiver" or just throw the damn thing outta bounds. Regardless of what he does, he has to be quicker making decisions in the pocket. One thing that Ramsey does have this year in contrast to last is a damn running game which will ease the pressure off of him a little.

SUNRA · 11-16-2004, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

I think the O-line across the board is struggling. Both the left and right side. Samuels and Thomas have both been solid, but Dockery and Ol Ray Brown have struggled at times. Dockery missed that guy that came clean up the middle on that blitz.

Ramsey is gonna have to learn to either throw the ball to his "checkdown receiver" or just throw the damn thing outta bounds. Regardless of what he does, he has to be quicker making decisions in the pocket. One thing that Ramsey does have this year in contrast to last is a damn running game which will ease the pressure off of him a little.

If Brunell really wants to help Ramsey then he needs to show him how to read the defense and scramble or step up into the pocket. I just want this offense to center around Portis and not Ramsey. Ramsey has to develop the confidence and consistency to throw the short pass and then go down field. Portis is the key to winning games. No 100yds., no win. You take away his handoffs you take us out of the game.

Daseal · 11-16-2004, 08:45 AM

Thank god we cut Kenyatta Jones and are stuck with Ray Brown as our only option.

We have to use the running game and quick outs/slants/etc to make them pay for blitzing.

SUNRA · 11-16-2004, 09:17 AM

The reality is the offensive line is not going to get better. Ray Brown and Derrick Dockery have been struggling weekend and weekout. If it's not penalties, it's missing a pass rusher. Ramsey has to adjust to this now and start to use his legs to get out of the line of fire. If not, he will not finish this season with the physical teams we are scheduled to play. A good QB has to adjust to adversity and give himself a chance to throw the ball down field. No better example than McNabb last night with his 14:00 sec. 60 yard play.

skins009 · 11-16-2004, 09:26 AM

I think ray brown has been absolutely terrible. They need to put in one of the rookies or something, cause is just no good. Plus we need an upgrade at center next year.

FRPLG · 11-16-2004, 09:45 AM

I think the left side has been just fine. Dockery is not a pro bowler but he run blocks well adn does a decent job in protection. Center has actually been very good if you study game film(don't we all?). Our left side has been a hit or miss. Thomas is good...very good but OL play is really a team sport broken into the two sides and our play at RT has really brought down the production. Where we are getting beat consistently is on blitzes. Correct me if I am wrong but it is not the job of the OL to pick up blitzing safeties and LBs(at least not usually). This is the job of the protection scheme it self to roll players into the correct position to block these guys. It seems our pass protection to me has been spotyy in two ways. One: we get beat by a gun coming free and unblocked...this is usually unavaoidable but it is up to the QB to recognize this and get us itno a play that will mitigate it. Throw a quick slant or a TE out etc... Two: coverage sacks...how many times have we taken a sack when Brunell held the ball more than three seconds. Three is it in the NFL...you have to get rid of the ball or get your ass moving after that. I think our line has taken heat because Bugel is so outspoken and his theory is that they should give the QB 10 seconds to make a play but that is not reasonable to assume. The coaches have been defelcting criticism of Brunell for weeks and most of it ends up on the OL by default. The guys seem to ahev taken it in stride but I think our line has been good enough for us to win.

Daseal · 11-16-2004, 11:50 AM

Dockery is still young, I think with enough time with Buges he'll be great. Either way we need to get 5 guys together, and KEEP THEM TOGETHER for quite some time. Let them gain confidence and trust each other.

SmootSmack · 11-16-2004, 12:03 PM

In Ray Brown's defense, and maybe someone can better explain the finer points of this, but I believe this the first time Brown has played RT. He's spent his career as a left guard and just recently move to right guard last season.

So I think he's been playing out of position this whole season

Redskins_P · 11-16-2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

In Ray Brown's defense, and maybe someone can better explain the finer points of this, but I believe this the first time Brown has played RT. He's spent his career as a left guard and just recently move to right guard last season.

So I think he's been playing out of position this whole season

That's true. I heard Doc Walker mention that last night. Maybe we should move him to LG and Dockery to RT.

MTK · 11-16-2004, 12:05 PM

Dockery takes a lot of heat on this board but I agree with Daseal here, he'll continue to improve under Bugel. Let's give him a little more time. He's still only a 2nd year guy. It's not like he's playing awful.

MTK · 11-16-2004, 12:07 PM

Dockery played RT in college but he doesn't really have the foot speed for RT in the pros, that's why he was moved inside.

JudgeJebus · 11-16-2004, 12:48 PM

Is it just me, or wasn't our O-Line's pass protection pretty good at the beginning of the season (Gibbs would criticize the run blocking in the post-game press conferences, but he usually said they did a good job in pass protection)? Any ideas as to why it's regressed?

FRPLG · 11-16-2004, 01:21 PM

I am telling you all it hasn't regressed and really isn't that bad. Our QBs are making it look worse than it really is. It hasn't been out freaking standing but it hasn't been a reason we are losing. Teams know we can't pass the ball (at least we couldn't with rag arm Brunell) so they stack the line for the run game and pressured Brunell to force him to make throws on the run and make tougher passes knowing he couldn't do it. I imagine we'll see the same now that Ramsey is playing sicn he is a statue and can't move. Until Ramsey shows the ability to find the open receiver on blitzes we're in for more of the same.

SkinsRock · 11-16-2004, 03:48 PM

With Samuels protecting the blind side instead of a 41 year old vet, it will be better. Yeah, they've struggled, but it is nowhere near last year's O-line debacle. Let's see how they do once they get used to Ramsey playing behind them (in practice and a few games) before making any big judgements.

11-16-2004, 09:17 AM	#5
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	The reality is the offensive line is not going to get better. Ray Brown and Derrick Dockery have been struggling weekend and weekout. If it's not penalties, it's missing a pass rusher. Ramsey has to adjust to this now and start to use his legs to get out of the line of fire. If not, he will not finish this season with the physical teams we are scheduled to play. A good QB has to adjust to adversity and give himself a chance to throw the ball down field. No better example than McNabb last night with his 14:00 sec. 60 yard play. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

11-16-2004, 12:03 PM	#9
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	In Ray Brown's defense, and maybe someone can better explain the finer points of this, but I believe this the first time Brown has played RT. He's spent his career as a left guard and just recently move to right guard last season. So I think he's been playing out of position this whole season __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

11-16-2004, 08:35 AM	#1
jbcjr14 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,015	O-Line Guys. I am happy that #11 is now in the game as the starter, but if you look at the games (I have watched a few a second time), the offensive line is horrible in pass protection! They are really struggling on the the right side of the line. Most of the corner and safety blitzes are coming off the right side and the pocket continually collapses after about 3 seconds which clearly isn't enough time for WR's to get open. Look at St. Louis, NE, Philly, those QB's have all frickin day to throw the ball! My point.... For Ramsey to have any chance of success, the offensive line better find a way to protect and open up some throwing lanes. The loss of Jansen is really showing as Ray Brown is just old and couldn't block my fat ass if I was coming off the corner on a Sunday afternoon stroll through the park. The left side appears to be ok and protects well in most cases. Buges better find a way to protect this week and next or Ramsey's season could be short lived. __________________ "Work Harder: millions on welfare are counting on you" - Obama 2009 address to Congress.

11-16-2004, 08:43 AM	#2
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	I think the O-line across the board is struggling. Both the left and right side. Samuels and Thomas have both been solid, but Dockery and Ol Ray Brown have struggled at times. Dockery missed that guy that came clean up the middle on that blitz. Ramsey is gonna have to learn to either throw the ball to his "checkdown receiver" or just throw the damn thing outta bounds. Regardless of what he does, he has to be quicker making decisions in the pocket. One thing that Ramsey does have this year in contrast to last is a damn running game which will ease the pressure off of him a little.

11-16-2004, 08:45 AM	#4
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Thank god we cut Kenyatta Jones and are stuck with Ray Brown as our only option. We have to use the running game and quick outs/slants/etc to make them pay for blitzing.

11-16-2004, 09:26 AM	#6
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	I think ray brown has been absolutely terrible. They need to put in one of the rookies or something, cause is just no good. Plus we need an upgrade at center next year.

11-16-2004, 09:45 AM	#7
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	I think the left side has been just fine. Dockery is not a pro bowler but he run blocks well adn does a decent job in protection. Center has actually been very good if you study game film(don't we all?). Our left side has been a hit or miss. Thomas is good...very good but OL play is really a team sport broken into the two sides and our play at RT has really brought down the production. Where we are getting beat consistently is on blitzes. Correct me if I am wrong but it is not the job of the OL to pick up blitzing safeties and LBs(at least not usually). This is the job of the protection scheme it self to roll players into the correct position to block these guys. It seems our pass protection to me has been spotyy in two ways. One: we get beat by a gun coming free and unblocked...this is usually unavaoidable but it is up to the QB to recognize this and get us itno a play that will mitigate it. Throw a quick slant or a TE out etc... Two: coverage sacks...how many times have we taken a sack when Brunell held the ball more than three seconds. Three is it in the NFL...you have to get rid of the ball or get your ass moving after that. I think our line has taken heat because Bugel is so outspoken and his theory is that they should give the QB 10 seconds to make a play but that is not reasonable to assume. The coaches have been defelcting criticism of Brunell for weeks and most of it ends up on the OL by default. The guys seem to ahev taken it in stride but I think our line has been good enough for us to win.

11-16-2004, 11:50 AM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Dockery is still young, I think with enough time with Buges he'll be great. Either way we need to get 5 guys together, and KEEP THEM TOGETHER for quite some time. Let them gain confidence and trust each other.

11-16-2004, 12:05 PM	#11
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Dockery takes a lot of heat on this board but I agree with Daseal here, he'll continue to improve under Bugel. Let's give him a little more time. He's still only a 2nd year guy. It's not like he's playing awful.

11-16-2004, 12:07 PM	#12
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Dockery played RT in college but he doesn't really have the foot speed for RT in the pros, that's why he was moved inside.

11-16-2004, 12:48 PM	#13
JudgeJebus Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 85	Is it just me, or wasn't our O-Line's pass protection pretty good at the beginning of the season (Gibbs would criticize the run blocking in the post-game press conferences, but he usually said they did a good job in pass protection)? Any ideas as to why it's regressed?

11-16-2004, 01:21 PM	#14
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	I am telling you all it hasn't regressed and really isn't that bad. Our QBs are making it look worse than it really is. It hasn't been out freaking standing but it hasn't been a reason we are losing. Teams know we can't pass the ball (at least we couldn't with rag arm Brunell) so they stack the line for the run game and pressured Brunell to force him to make throws on the run and make tougher passes knowing he couldn't do it. I imagine we'll see the same now that Ramsey is playing sicn he is a statue and can't move. Until Ramsey shows the ability to find the open receiver on blitzes we're in for more of the same.

11-16-2004, 03:48 PM	#15
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	With Samuels protecting the blind side instead of a 41 year old vet, it will be better. Yeah, they've struggled, but it is nowhere near last year's O-line debacle. Let's see how they do once they get used to Ramsey playing behind them (in practice and a few games) before making any big judgements.

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